Wow….Helton is out

[KUGRDON]

Why wasn’t Helton successful?

[EastCoastFan]

On 9/16/2021 at 3:33 PM, KUGRDON said:

Why wasn’t Helton successful?

I'm going to take a stab at that, just for discussion.  With recruiting, Helton actually wasn't too bad, although Trojan faithful probably would argue that five-star SoCal talent should never be leaving the area.  With in-game strategy, it's easy to criticize Helton, but he's really been no worse than a lot of coaches. 

Where he seems to have totally failed is in building team unity, inspired discipline, cohesive structure, and with player development that contributes to team, not to the individual.  There are some coaches who are masters at this; it comes from leadership, respect, and personal characteristics that are not easy to measure, but obvious in their absence.  It's presence.  The ability to command attention and to have your team want to do what you ask, not reluctantly go along with it.  It also comes from having a fine-tuned rhythm among your assistants, not just having them be great recruiters or excellent at knowing their position reponsibilities.  It's that undefinable "it" that some head coaches possess, and others never achieve.

[utenation]

On 9/16/2021 at 4:32 PM, EastCoastFan said:

I'm going to take a stab at that, just for discussion.  With recruiting, Helton actually wasn't too bad, although Trojan faithful probably would argue that five-star SoCal talent should never be leaving the area.  With in-game strategy, it's easy to criticize Helton, but he's really been no worse than a lot of coaches. 

Where he seems to have totally failed is in building team unity, inspired discipline, cohesive structure, and with player development that contributes to team, not to the individual.  There are some coaches who are masters at this; it comes from leadership, respect, and personal characteristics that are not easy to measure, but obvious in their absence.  It's presence.  The ability to command attention and to have your team want to do what you ask, not reluctantly go along with it.  It also comes from having a fine-tuned rhythm among your assistants, not just having them be great recruiters or excellent at knowing their position reponsibilities.  It's that undefinable "it" that some head coaches possess, and others never achieve.

I think Helton would do well in a low key media market. He's just not Hollywood enough.  Getting a bunch of 4-5 star recruits that live near the beach and supermodels at every turn requires the right personality. Not to mention deal with the entitlement of those type of recruits. A good MWC team or even a non LA P12 team would be a good fit, IMO. 

I thought Sark was a good fit but maybe he was too Hollywood with the booze.

 

[Scscsc89]

On 9/16/2021 at 3:32 PM, EastCoastFan said:

I'm going to take a stab at that, just for discussion.  With recruiting, Helton actually wasn't too bad, although Trojan faithful probably would argue that five-star SoCal talent should never be leaving the area.  With in-game strategy, it's easy to criticize Helton, but he's really been no worse than a lot of coaches. 

Where he seems to have totally failed is in building team unity, inspired discipline, cohesive structure, and with player development that contributes to team, not to the individual.  There are some coaches who are masters at this; it comes from leadership, respect, and personal characteristics that are not easy to measure, but obvious in their absence.  It's presence.  The ability to command attention and to have your team want to do what you ask, not reluctantly go along with it.  It also comes from having a fine-tuned rhythm among your assistants, not just having them be great recruiters or excellent at knowing their position reponsibilities.  It's that undefinable "it" that some head coaches possess, and others never achieve.

 

I'm going to suggest that that his character is the ONE positive quality that Helton possesses & allowed him to last as long as he did & got whatever success he achieved (one P12 championship, one Rose Bowl win):  By all accounts, he is a genuinely fantastic person & his players absolutely LOVE him.  Look at all the current & former players that came out of the woodwork on Monday and tweeted how much he means to them as a person.  It's weird, almost cult-like.  I do give him credit for bringing a lot of character & stability to the program which was sorely lacking after his predecessors left.

The real problem is that Clay Helton just isn't a good football coach. 

These aren't even opinions, they are facts:

• He had never been a head coach before USC. 
• He doesn't have his own system. -- he's not an Xs & Os guy.  He was OC under two head coaches (Kiff & Sark) that ran their own offenses. 
• Before USC he had no experience managing a game.  He's had to learn on the job.
• He's not known for evaluating talent OR developing it.  Last week, USC wasn't among the top 20 programs with players in the NFL.
• During his tenure, USC has been among the top 20 most-penalized teams in the country.
• He's an average recruiter but there's a reason they had to bring in Donte Williams 2 years ago after the worst USC recruiting class ever.

 

Helton was in over his head from day 1 and never should've been hired in the first place let alone extended.   

[EastCoastFan]

Having your players love you isn't the same as commanding their respect.  These two are often confused.  In fact, the most respected coaches often aren't loved at all, but they do command attention and response.

[Scscsc89]

Initially you said Helton failed because he couldn't build team unity and cohesion because he didn't have 'presence'.  I'm calling bullshit on that because even after getting absolutely walloped by Alabama, Ohio State, Iowa, Oregon, Stanford, his teams never once gave up on him.   Even now, this team would do anything for him.  They believe in his credo of "Faith, Family, Football".  They respect the hell out of him.

 

The problem is that he didn't know how to teach them to get better at football.  All they could do is rely on their talent, which a lot of times was enough to get by.

As the former coach of UNLV who does an inside-USC-football podcast says, “If I had a son who played football, I would send him to USC to be with Clay Helton — he is a great leader of young men.  But if I was a fan, I would not want my football team to be coached by Clay Helton.”

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Scscsc89]

Former Buff beat writers are saying there may be bad blood between Eric Bieniemy & USC AD mike bohn from their time at Colorado.

[Mano]

Helton's would probably been considered successful at any other school in the league. How many Rose Bowl winning coaches do you see getting canned?

[Scscsc89]

He went 5-7 two seasons later.   That rose bowl was a looong time ago

 

But yeah, back in the 80-90s, USC fired three straight coaches who won Rose Bowls for them:  Ted Tollner, Larry Smith & John Robinson (who had won 4 of them).

[glduck]

Going from memory, UW w/ Neuheisel and Oregon w/ Helfrich also fired coaches after winning Rose Bowls this century. Not super common, but it happens from time to time.

[azgreg]

On 9/18/2021 at 2:34 PM, glduck said:

Going from memory, UW w/ Neuheisel and Oregon w/ Helfrich also fired coaches after winning Rose Bowls this century. Not super common, but it happens from time to time.

On the other hand, Arizona has never fired a coach after winning the Rose Bowl.

 

[Orange]

On 9/18/2021 at 3:09 PM, azgreg said:

On the other hand, Arizona has never fired a coach after winning the Rose Bowl.

 

Neither has Oregon State; though to be fair our last rose bowl win was during the era when railroad magnates got part-time gigs coaching football.

[MrBug708]

On 9/18/2021 at 3:09 PM, azgreg said:

On the other hand, Arizona has never fired a coach after winning the Rose Bowl.

 

Blame the Hurricane

[PAC MAN]

On 9/18/2021 at 12:18 PM, Scscsc89 said:

Former Buff beat writers are saying there may be bad blood between Eric Bieniemy & USC AD mike bohn from their time at Colorado.

The firing of Jon Embree was a PR disaster that led to CU pushing Bohn out the door.

[EastCoastFan]

USC coaching candidates:

• Fickell is hot.  A win over Notre Dame could put him in the driver's seat.  And he's a buddy of Bohn.
• Franklin is on everybody's list.  But would he want it?  He's in a great spot right now.  Looking at the Whiteout against Auburn, maybe a better spot.
• Bieniemy is fading.  Just like he did with each NFL opening.  He makes the list to show inclusion.  And there's no love lost with him and Bohn.
• Sitake has suddenly risen and is a longshot possibility.  If he goes undefeated (a real chance of that) going into the USC game and wins, he'd be hard to pass up.  He'd be the unoffcial Pac-12 champ.
• Campbell has lost some luster.  He's a little wonky, and the loss to the Hawkeyes didn't help him.  More losses might be comings, as the Big-12 is a rough road.
• O'Brien, Fleck, Hafley, and Elliott can't be ignored, but they sure aren't leading the pack.  They're the names that will surface if there a lot of "No, I'm not interested" responses from the others.
• Grabbing a retired "name" doesn't seem likley.  Stoops, Meyers, and Petersen likely wouldn't want the grief.  They know the college game, and they have a clear idea of what the USC environment is.
• A name to watch (but this could blow up this weekend against Michigan) -- Schiano.  If he somehow pulled out 9 or 10 wins with the downtrodden Scarlet Knights, he'd be seen as a true miracle worker.

[Scorcho]

one of the dangers of firing a coach so early in the year is you risk the possibility that the interim coach goes off on a major run, bonds with the players and instantly inserts himself as the leading candidate. USC would have been better served to stay with Helton for a bit longer IMO

[Scscsc89]

one of the main reasons that Bohn made the move was that the crowds at the coliseum were booing Helton and long-time fans had stopped renewing their season tickets.  It was going to become a ghost town if they kept him.

 Six years was enough.   It was clear he wasn’t the guy to take the team to the next level. Time to turn the page.

I do worry about them hiring Williams but he’s never even been a coordinator.  Unless he wins the conference and makes the playoffs, Bohn has made it clear that this hire is looking at the longer term.

[azgreg]

LOL

 

[Scscsc89]

 

Not creepy at all ...

 

[Scscsc89]

It may be time to can Graham Harrell — his offense just doesn’t work.