Mano Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 2 hours ago, clpp01 said: Problem with that is that short of swing states sacrificing their importance in elections that there are not enough votes in democrat favored states to get to 270 and the states that have already signed up for it will be losing electoral votes starting with the '24 election making it even more difficult. The thing is, this shouldn't be a Dem vs. GOP issue. At some point the shoe will be on the other foot and a Dem will win the Presidency while losing the popular vote. I understand the swing states not wanting this, as the candidates all are forced to pander to them. All the states that typically vote one way should want to go to popular vote, because then they would still be relevant, and the campaigns would not be able to ignore them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clpp01 Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Mano said: The thing is, this shouldn't be a Dem vs. GOP issue. At some point the shoe will be on the other foot and a Dem will win the Presidency while losing the popular vote. I understand the swing states not wanting this, as the candidates all are forced to pander to them. All the states that typically vote one way should want to go to popular vote, because then they would still be relevant, and the campaigns would not be able to ignore them. Shouldn’t be but it isn’t. In order to get to 270 you’ll need a Texas/Florida combo or a collection of southeast & flyover states to join when none will want anything to do with California & New York “Telling them what to do” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 12 hours ago, Mano said: The thing is, this shouldn't be a Dem vs. GOP issue. At some point the shoe will be on the other foot and a Dem will win the Presidency while losing the popular vote. I really can't foresee the GOP winning a popular vote consistency in our lifetimes unless the platforms of either party change considerably. The GOP has won exactly one popular vote since 1988. 12 hours ago, Mano said: I understand the swing states not wanting this, as the candidates all are forced to pander to them. All the states that typically vote one way should want to go to popular vote, because then they would still be relevant, and the campaigns would not be able to ignore them. Not just campaigns, but governance. All our policies under consideration by the "mainstream" politicians in congress cater shamelessly to FL, OH, IA, PA, MI, WI, etc. Manufacturing jobs, anti-climate bullshit, pandering to fracking, bullshit "working-class whites" rhetoric, etc. We literally cannot pass federal legislation that addresses the majority of Americans' concerns because we have politicians who only bother to address the needs of swing states, 24/7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 12 hours ago, clpp01 said: Shouldn’t be but it isn’t. In order to get to 270 you’ll need a Texas/Florida combo or a collection of southeast & flyover states to join when none will want anything to do with California & New York “Telling them what to do” TX is maybe 2 cycles away from turning blue. You bet your ass they'll want an interstate pop.-vote compact when that time comes. This is another reason why dems need to learn to message on issues, and stop letting the GOP dominate the race discussion w/ "riots" and "violence in dem.-run cities" bullshit all over facebook. AOC is absolutely right. Conor Lamb spent a paltry sum on facebook in the final weeks of the campaign. WE'RE LETTING THE GOP DOMINATE THE SINGLE BIGGEST NEWS OUTLET IN THE WORLD, AND WE'RE DOING SO WITHOUT A FIGHT. Then Lamb complains "My constituents don't like defund the police." Hey dumbfuck, that's because they have no idea what it means, because you spent $2k on facebook ads in November!!! If we actually messaged the way the GOP does 52 weeks per year, every year, instead of waiting to pander to latino voters in the border counties in the final months of a presidential eleciton, we might be able to change the narrative on issues. Hell, legalizing weed, medicare for all, $15 minimum wage, and racial justice are winning issues for the Democrats. Instead of capitalizing on that, however, we yield the messaging to Hannity and Rush and the right-wing. Democrats need to learn how to educate the electorate the way the GOP misinforms them. And we can't do that with milquetoast, republican-lite messaging. We have to be an alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scscsc89 Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 14 hours ago, Mano said: The thing is, this shouldn't be a Dem vs. GOP issue. At some point the shoe will be on the other foot and a Dem will win the Presidency while losing the popular vote. I understand the swing states not wanting this, as the candidates all are forced to pander to them. All the states that typically vote one way should want to go to popular vote, because then they would still be relevant, and the campaigns would not be able to ignore them. I am a big fan of this idea but I don’t see California or Texas breaking themselves up unless everyone does it as well. aka “You go first” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 On 11/14/2020 at 11:00 AM, clpp01 said: I'll walk back my comments in regards to statehood, after researching it a bit further appears it only requires a simple majority vote from Congress than a super majority that I had believed so that wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility. But abolishing the Senate and the EC is where you are living in a fantasy world. The Senate doesn't represent the people, it was never designed to represent the public. The Senate is the representation of the states that binds what is essentially 50 independent nations into one. You can hate on a Joe Manchin all you want but the simple fact is you can't do better than him in a place like West Virginia, the same way Republicans couldn't do better than Susan Collins in a place like Maine. You try it and your choice of candidate is getting beat in the GE by 20+ points. The EC is simple, only way to eliminate it is by passing a new constitutional amendment which requires either both chambers of Congress passing it by 2/3rd majority and 75% of states approving it, or for 2/3rds of the states to call for a Constitutional Convention where states could bypass Congress completely but they still require 3/4ths majority or 38 states to approve of any amendment passing and I can give you a list of 15+ states right now that will never support abandoning the EC because of the power it gives them to shape elections. I don't agree that we have to settle for Collins or Manchin to be on our side in the senate. Obviously we can get statehood for DC and tip the balance of the Senate further, but frankly, if we messaged better, then the poor people in rural Maine and WV would be natural democratic allies. Medicare For All, a wealth tax, $15 minimum wage, etc., are all winning issues, even in those states. The more I become acquainted with politics and US history, by the way, the less I buy this "the senate is the cooling saucer and the esteemed institution for states' rights." To me, it's all about white supremacy. After reconstruction failed in the 1870s, and the South basically got to reverse the outcome of the civil war by denying voting rights for blacks, and removing all of the black gains in the Senate and House, we suddenly had the idea to add 9 rural, majority-white states to the union between 1876 and 1907 (Nebraska, the Dakotas, Montana, Washington, Colorado, Idaho, Utah, Wyoming), forever ending any hope of minorities in this country receiving any kind of justice for the way in which their lives were ruined by a white majority in the Senate. Basically, we stacked the Senate. The fact that we haven't added a new state (and thus new, progressive senators) in more than 60 years is the longest tenure we've EVER had in this nation without adding a state. And I think this is on purpose. The opposition to DC state hood is white supremacy, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mano Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 8 hours ago, Scscsc89 said: I am a big fan of this idea but I don’t see California or Texas breaking themselves up unless everyone does it as well. aka “You go first” You just need to round up a coalition of states that add up to 270, of course it would be contingent on there being enough in the coalition. The thing I would worry about is states backing out after the fact when administrations change. IANAL, but would need to be setup to prevent this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glduck Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 We’re two weeks removed from the election and conservatives are still A-OK with Trump holding up the transition process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glduck Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Neat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 The republican party is burning itself down. Until they condemn this asshole, they own every tweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRBuff Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, Orange said: The republican party is burning itself down. Until they condemn this asshole, they own every tweet. This is patently absurd. That said, he’s been tweeting for the last four years and Republicans did not pay a price. I’m not sure why they will in 2-4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glduck Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 We’re about three days from conservatives arguing the constitution is unconstitutional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Not the onion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quack 12 Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Michigan certifies. “The board’s duty today is very clear,“ said Aaron Van Langevelde, the Republican vice-chair. “We have a duty to certify this election based on these returns. That is very clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glduck Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 After dozens of humiliating and unnecessary defeats in court, the transition begins. Finally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azgreg Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glduck Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 And more good news! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 16 hours ago, glduck said: And more good news! This HAD to happen. Now for the runoffs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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