Picking Up The Pieces

[Aztecgolfer]

On 3/1/2023 at 7:32 PM, HLB said:

There's a reason why ESPN, Fox Sports, CBS Sports and other networks dedicated to "sports" are not leaping at the chance to outbid Amazon, ION or Apple for the broadcasting rights, etc., of the PAC12.  And that reason is that networks who are sports oriented, recognize that the PAC12 - especially with UCLA and USC leaving - will not bring in the viewership and money that other conferences do.  In short, the return on the investment is limited, and these networks are not going to try and outbid Amazon, ION or Apple.

For Amazon, ION or Apple, going after a TV deal with the PAC12 is like the Jacksonville Jaguars owner going after Urban Meyer without realizing that Urban Meyer is a fraud, and foolishly opening the vault to make him the Jaguars HC.

The PAC12 isn't a fraud, but the conference does not measure up to other P5 conferences, and if any of these three entities secure a TV contract with the PAC12, it will be a strong money grab for the PAC12, but a bad investment for "winning" network.

At the end of the day, none of the schools being mentioned as potential new PAC12 members will measure up to UCLA and USC.  It's going to be a significant drop on multiple levels.

Rather than rush to fill the void being left by UCLA and USC, the conference needs to stand pat, with the 10 schools they have, secure a solid TV deal, and do their best to make those 10 schools as strong and profitable as possible.  The conference can still have a strong league with 10 schools.  Raising those 10 schools to the best they can be, should be the focus.  The leap to go after Amazon, ION or Apple is a desperation move that doesn't need to happen.

20% of the US population lives west of the Rockies. Should they be ignored? Just what does ESPN plan to broadcast after 7PM PST, Corn Hole and celebrity poker tournaments? Tractor pulls? Think of the B12. In every case they are in direct competition for media slots with the SEC, B1G, ACC and Notre Dame. The PAC? Well you got the MWC and WCC (for basketball only). As for sticking at 10, in order to get the best deal possible then you have to have inventory so that is why expansion is on the table. SDSU will be the first choice. The real question is who is second, though SMU looks to be the frontrunner.

[Orange]

On 3/2/2023 at 7:59 AM, Aztecgolfer said:

You have two sources in opposition on whether ION is part of the discussion. The question is, which one is right? ANALYZE.

Uh, one source is from a reputable journalist quoting "direct knowledge", the other is passive voice with no source even mentioned.  DIPSHIT.

[Orange]

On 3/1/2023 at 7:32 PM, HLB said:

There's a reason why ESPN, Fox Sports, CBS Sports and other networks dedicated to "sports" are not leaping at the chance to outbid Amazon, ION or Apple for the broadcasting rights, etc., of the PAC12.  And that reason is that networks who are sports oriented, recognize that the PAC12 - especially with UCLA and USC leaving - will not bring in the viewership and money that other conferences do.  In short, the return on the investment is limited, and these networks are not going to try and outbid Amazon, ION or Apple.

For Amazon, ION or Apple, going after a TV deal with the PAC12 is like the Jacksonville Jaguars owner going after Urban Meyer without realizing that Urban Meyer is a fraud, and foolishly opening the vault to make him the Jaguars HC.

The PAC12 isn't a fraud, but the conference does not measure up to other P5 conferences, and if any of these three entities secure a TV contract with the PAC12, it will be a strong money grab for the PAC12, but a bad investment for "winning" network.

At the end of the day, none of the schools being mentioned as potential new PAC12 members will measure up to UCLA and USC.  It's going to be a significant drop on multiple levels.

Rather than rush to fill the void being left by UCLA and USC, the conference needs to stand pat, with the 10 schools they have, secure a solid TV deal, and do their best to make those 10 schools as strong and profitable as possible.  The conference can still have a strong league with 10 schools.  Raising those 10 schools to the best they can be, should be the focus.  The leap to go after Amazon, ION or Apple is a desperation move that doesn't need to happen.

Your takes are mayonnaise-sandwich-left-in-a-car-in-long-term-parking-at-La-Guardia-level lame.

[EastCoastFan]

Finally some inside information to share!  This video of George Kliavkoff gives some serious behind-the-scenes insight into what's been happening in the Pac-12's front offices:

 

 

[HLB]

On 3/2/2023 at 10:06 AM, Aztecgolfer said:

20% of the US population lives west of the Rockies. Should they be ignored? Just what does ESPN plan to broadcast after 7PM PST, Corn Hole and celebrity poker tournaments? Tractor pulls? Think of the B12. In every case they are in direct competition for media slots with the SEC, B1G, ACC and Notre Dame. The PAC? Well you got the MWC and WCC (for basketball only). As for sticking at 10, in order to get the best deal possible then you have to have inventory so that is why expansion is on the table. SDSU will be the first choice. The real question is who is second, though SMU looks to be the frontrunner.

With 80% of the US populations living east of the Rockies (your numbers and percentages), who is going to be awake for games to be broadcast "after" 7PM PST?  And is it ESPN's job to promote the PAC12 (10)? ESPN is not a non-profit organization and they are looking to make a profit.  To do so, they sell advertising.  And to get the highest dollar for a commercial, they have to have strong viewership.  So why would they broadcast any game, from any conference, with a kickoff time at 11PM EST or later?  And does ESPN have a contract with the PAC12 that requires them to broadcast PAC12 games?

The entity that is causing 80% of the population "not" to see PAC12 games, is the PAC12 Network, which isn't available to almost 80% of the US population.  Many times, I've seen PAC12 games on schedule that I would like to watch, but it's on the PAC12 Network, and not available to me, and the majority of the US population east of the Rockies.

The PAC12 plays games at night, which start at 10PM EST and 9PM CST.  And guess what - we watch them. As for the B12, I watch a lot of their games, every Saturday.  Their games are not restricted by a conference TV network.

CFB is arguably the most watched sport.  CFB fans watch almost any games and are tuned in all day long.  And those PC12 games that begin at 7PM PST are watched.  But when the games start at 8PM and later, people eventually fall asleep.

As for 10 or 12 teams, in order to get the best deal possible, a conference has to have compelling teams 80% of the US population east of the Rockies are going to tune in to watch.  Simply having more teams doesn't make the product better.  If that's the case, add Sacramento State and Cal-Davis to the PAC.  In fact, add 20 teams west of the Rockies.  Truth is, it won't make the conference better.  It will water down the conference with subpar "P5" talent.

The PAC's best years were in the late 90's and early 2000's, when they only had 10 teams.  Stay at 10 and let those ten teams get stronger.  With USC and UCLA moving to the B1G, many west coast recruits, who want to compete in the PAC12, have just become available to the remaining 10 PAC12 teams.

And I'm sorry, but speaking for the 80% of the US population that is east of the Rockies, SDSU and SMU do not make the PAC12 more compelling, and will not move the needle and inspire people to tune in and watch SDSU play Washington, or Oregon State, or Colorado, etc.

Speaking for 80% of the US population, adding teams like SDSU and SMU are desperation moves that will make the PAC12 less attractive, as a P5 conference.  It would be best for the PAC12 to simply go back to being the PAC10.  They can still be a good P5 conference with 10 teams.

[HLB]

On 3/2/2023 at 10:10 AM, Orange said:

Your takes are mayonnaise-sandwich-left-in-a-car-in-long-term-parking-at-La-Guardia-level lame.

Nice response.  This tells me you have no intellectual response.

[HLB]

I've been criticized for saying that the PAC12 is imploding (with the departure of UCLA and USC).  Apparently, I'm not the only one who sees it that way.

Former Coach Believes Major Conference Could Collapse (msn.com)

The conference needs to stay at 10 and be the best that they can be, as a 10-team conference.

[Aztecgolfer]

On 3/2/2023 at 8:08 AM, Orange said:

Uh, one source is from a reputable journalist quoting "direct knowledge", the other is passive voice with no source even mentioned.  DIPSHIT.

Dipshit? Nice. That all you got? Gee, what did I do to crap in your Cheerios? Just pointing out that a lot of people are throwing things out to see if it sticks.

[Orange]

On 3/3/2023 at 1:20 AM, HLB said:

With 80% of the US populations living east of the Rockies (your numbers and percentages), who is going to be awake for games to be broadcast "after" 7PM PST? 

...

On 3/3/2023 at 1:20 AM, HLB said:

The PAC12 plays games at night, which start at 10PM EST and 9PM CST.  And guess what - we watch them.

So.....are we done here?

[Aztecgolfer]

On 3/3/2023 at 1:20 AM, HLB said:

With 80% of the US populations living east of the Rockies (your numbers and percentages), who is going to be awake for games to be broadcast "after" 7PM PST?  And is it ESPN's job to promote the PAC12 (10)? ESPN is not a non-profit organization and they are looking to make a profit.  To do so, they sell advertising.  And to get the highest dollar for a commercial, they have to have strong viewership.  So why would they broadcast any game, from any conference, with a kickoff time at 11PM EST or later?  And does ESPN have a contract with the PAC12 that requires them to broadcast PAC12 games?

The entity that is causing 80% of the population "not" to see PAC12 games, is the PAC12 Network, which isn't available to almost 80% of the US population.  Many times, I've seen PAC12 games on schedule that I would like to watch, but it's on the PAC12 Network, and not available to me, and the majority of the US population east of the Rockies.

The PAC12 plays games at night, which start at 10PM EST and 9PM CST.  And guess what - we watch them. As for the B12, I watch a lot of their games, every Saturday.  Their games are not restricted by a conference TV network.

CFB is arguably the most watched sport.  CFB fans watch almost any games and are tuned in all day long.  And those PC12 games that begin at 7PM PST are watched.  But when the games start at 8PM and later, people eventually fall asleep.

As for 10 or 12 teams, in order to get the best deal possible, a conference has to have compelling teams 80% of the US population east of the Rockies are going to tune in to watch.  Simply having more teams doesn't make the product better.  If that's the case, add Sacramento State and Cal-Davis to the PAC.  In fact, add 20 teams west of the Rockies.  Truth is, it won't make the conference better.  It will water down the conference with subpar "P5" talent.

The PAC's best years were in the late 90's and early 2000's, when they only had 10 teams.  Stay at 10 and let those ten teams get stronger.  With USC and UCLA moving to the B1G, many west coast recruits, who want to compete in the PAC12, have just become available to the remaining 10 PAC12 teams.

And I'm sorry, but speaking for the 80% of the US population that is east of the Rockies, SDSU and SMU do not make the PAC12 more compelling, and will not move the needle and inspire people to tune in and watch SDSU play Washington, or Oregon State, or Colorado, etc.

Speaking for 80% of the US population, adding teams like SDSU and SMU are desperation moves that will make the PAC12 less attractive, as a P5 conference.  It would be best for the PAC12 to simply go back to being the PAC10.  They can still be a good P5 conference with 10 teams.

I am not saying that east of the Rockies isn't important, just that west of the Rockies cannot be ignored, and there is less competition after 7PM PST. The PAC12 network is going away. Streaming via either Amazon or Apple, the latter seems to be making a bigger push recently, will reach more people than the P12N. Apple is the most successful company in the history of the world. Their TV service is underperforming but they have added MLB and MSL to their ticket. I wouldn't sell them short when it comes to TV, they have more capital than Amazon and ESPN combined to invest into their TV. The PAC was stupid putting the majority of its BB games on the P12N and it has hurt recruiting conference wide. They will remedy that this time around. However, streaming is the future. Still, ESPN will be broadcasting many games.

SAC St and UC Davis are not SDSU athletically and the former isn't there academically. If academics didn't matter, the PAC would be taking a serious look at Fresno St. and Boise St. They aren't. UNLV would be intriguing but their football programs has never been good and their BB program is a shell of its former self. Still a nice market and travel destination and they have been trying to improve their academics.

SDSU received their offer from the PAC in October. The PAC already claims the San Diego Market via USCLA so they need to keep San Diego to stop the bleeding. Also, PAC schools recruit San Diego quite a bit and don't want to lose that. If the PAC deal isn't good enough, then we will accept the offer we have from the B12. Were SDSU go to the B12 it would be really bad for the future of the PAC as the B12 would be planted right in its wheelhouse. Our preference is the PAC for numerous reasons, not the least is the value placed on academics in the PAC. SDSU acceptance rate is more restrictive than many of the remaining PAC schools, R1 rating will be finalized before 2025. Our campus expansion in Mission Valley is geared towards improving our research capabilities. Athletically, SDSU has made nearly one half billion dollars in investments in venues and administrative offices in the past 25 years. SDSU MBB would come in as one of the best in the conference as it stands right now. Football, would be about mid pack initially. Oh, San Diego is a nice travel destination as well, ranking highly among other US cities as a tourist destination.

[Aztecgolfer]

On 3/3/2023 at 1:25 AM, HLB said:

Nice response.  This tells me you have no intellectual response.

I guess he doesn't understand that if the PAC were to disintegrate, unlikely at this point in time, then Oregon St. and Wazzu end up with no seat at the "P5" table and end up in the MWC.

[Orange]

On 3/3/2023 at 7:53 AM, Aztecgolfer said:

I guess he doesn't understand that if the PAC were to disintegrate, unlikely at this point in time, then Oregon St. and Wazzu end up with no seat at the "P5" table and end up in the MWC.

Oh, I don't understand that?  That's what you gleaned from that?

Or maybe it's that 8 paragraphs from an SEC troll about how the Pac-12 sucks where he repeats the same shit we've all been saying for 6 months isn't terribly interesting?  Go to bed, boomer.

[Quack 12]

On 3/3/2023 at 1:20 AM, HLB said:

And I'm sorry, but speaking for the 80% of the US population that is east of the Rockies, SDSU and SMU do not make the PAC12 more compelling, and will not move the needle and inspire people to tune in and watch SDSU play Washington, or Oregon State, or Colorado, etc.

I'm not sure you can legitimately speak for 80% of the nation, but everyone knows SDSU and SMU don't have the cachet of the LA schools. It's not a secret.

What they do bring is inventory, which is important to media companies. SMU is less popular in the Dallas/Ft. Worth Metroplex than UT, A&M, OU or TCU, but in the PAC they won't often  have to compete directly with those schools for regional viewers, and a 9 p.m. start in Dallas is a solid timeslot. I think they can move the needle - eventually.

[HLB]

On 3/3/2023 at 9:49 AM, Orange said:

...

So.....are we done here?

Learn your time zones and pay attention to what was being said.

PAC 12 games that are broadcasted at 7PM PST is 10PM EST and 9 PM CST, respectively, and viewers in the east watch those games.

However, the reference was to games that start "after" 7PM PST - meaning 8PM PST.  Games broadcasted at that hour would be 11PM EST and 10PM CST and are less likely to be seen by viewers in the east.

The complaint was that "after" 7PM PST (meaning 8PM PST or later), ESPN is broadcasting cornhole championships and tractor pulls - and suggesting that PAC12 games should be broadcast after 7PM PST and broadcasted by ESPN.  My response was that "after" 7PM PST (meaning 8PM PST or later) east coast viewers are less likely to watch games that begin at 11PM EST and 10PM CST.  The complainer was implying the PAC12 would get more recognition with games being played at a later time, than 7PM PST, and televised by ESPN.

[HLB]

On 3/3/2023 at 3:39 PM, Quack 12 said:

I'm not sure you can legitimately speak for 80% of the nation, but everyone knows SDSU and SMU don't have the cachet of the LA schools. It's not a secret.

What they do bring is inventory, which is important to media companies. SMU is less popular in the Dallas/Ft. Worth Metroplex than UT, A&M, OU or TCU, but in the PAC they won't often  have to compete directly with those schools for regional viewers, and a 9 p.m. start in Dallas is a solid timeslot. I think they can move the needle - eventually.

I'm not the one who spoke for 80% of the nation.  The SDSU fan did.  I only used his numbers and his percentages (as indicated in my response).

And I'm not so sure that you can legitimately speak for media companies and state that "inventory" is important to broadcasting networks.  What is important to media companies is making money.  And networks such as ESPN and Fox Sports are looking for games that have national appeal, more that regional appeal, because that yields more money.

PAC12 fans like yourself need to make up your minds.  Do you want regional appeal or national appeal?  The complaint that PAC12 fans so often reciprocate is that they don't get consideration for the CFB playoffs, etc., because they feel that the PAC12 doesn't get enough national exposure.  Now you're telling me that SMU and SDSU would garner regional viewership, and that's all that's necessary.

[HLB]

On 3/3/2023 at 9:53 AM, Aztecgolfer said:

I guess he doesn't understand that if the PAC were to disintegrate, unlikely at this point in time, then Oregon St. and Wazzu end up with no seat at the "P5" table and end up in the MWC.

Oregon State and Wazzu have "never" had a meaningful seat at the P5 table, and not much of a seat at the PAC12 table.

[HLB]

@Orangeand @Aztecgolfer and @Quack 12

No response to this article that I posted? 

Former Coach Believes Major Conference Could Collapse (msn.com)

 

[azgreg]

 

[Aztecgolfer]

On 3/3/2023 at 9:39 AM, Orange said:

Oh, I don't understand that?  That's what you gleaned from that?

Or maybe it's that 8 paragraphs from an SEC troll about how the Pac-12 sucks where he repeats the same shit we've all been saying for 6 months isn't terribly interesting?  Go to bed, boomer.

Ah, boomer. Like that's an insult. 

Not sure how I relate to the "SEC" guy but I have actually defended the PAC against a plethora of B12 fanatics. I have said that the conference should be safe from any additional raiding by the B1G until 2030, perhaps even until 2036 when the ACC GOR expires. I'd place Notre Dame, Virginia & UNC above UW and UO when it comes to B1G targets. Clemson would be in that mix as well, but I think they and FSU go to the SEC.

I'm glad you realize that OSU should hope the music doesn't stop because they and Wazzu will be without a chair if that happens.

 

[Aztecgolfer]

On 3/3/2023 at 1:39 PM, Quack 12 said:

I'm not sure you can legitimately speak for 80% of the nation, but everyone knows SDSU and SMU don't have the cachet of the LA schools. It's not a secret.

What they do bring is inventory, which is important to media companies. SMU is less popular in the Dallas/Ft. Worth Metroplex than UT, A&M, OU or TCU, but in the PAC they won't often  have to compete directly with those schools for regional viewers, and a 9 p.m. start in Dallas is a solid timeslot. I think they can move the needle - eventually.

I've read that USCLA bring $250M in value to the B1G so it is no secret that SDSU isn't meant as a replacement for either school. However,  the PAC cannot afford to lose SD to the B12 and be locked out of all SoCal. Again, SDSU already adds to the PAC BB program as it has consistently been one of the best programs in the West. Football will take time to increase recruiting. Utah struggled initially when they joined