Scscsc89 Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scscsc89 Posted October 16, 2019 Author Share Posted October 16, 2019 oh FFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scscsc89 Posted October 16, 2019 Author Share Posted October 16, 2019 “It may be unorthodox, but let’s give Trump’ foreign policy attempts a chance. How bad can it be?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glduck Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 good god Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUGRDON Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, glduck said: good god I totally agree. He is an idiot. But be honest, were the results in Syria any better while Obama was President? Quantify. Did Russian and Iranian influence in Syria increase or decrease? Violent deaths of civilians? Refugees? Homeless? We, meaning none of us, have this disengagement thingy worked out. We cannot arm and train indigenous armed forces (such as the Kurds) to do our bidding (fighting ISIS) in places like the Middle East without upsetting the regional balance of power and thereby inflame historic rivalries. The Kurds want an independent state bordering Syria, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Georgia, etc. taking land from most of those countries. How’s that going to work? I find the abandonment of an ally like this just horrible and as a breach of faith. At the same time, looking out 100 years, no matter what happens now, there will be war most likely leading to a practical genocide of the Kurds without a dramatic and ongoing commitment of American force. Much of this problem is due to the fact that we’ve armed and emboldened the Kurds to fight ISIS (so that we didn’t have to put “boots on the ground” in a sufficient number to defeat ISIS ourselves.) The Kurds are now turning the weapons and training they obtained (from us) to fight ISIS on Turkey who they view as an interloper into “Kurdistan” the same way ISIS was. For its part, Turkey does not want an armed Kurdish military along the Turkey/Syria border sending weapons and fighters into Turkey in pursuit of their nationalist desires. Understandable. The Kurds were not fighting ISIS for the US. They were fighting to remove ISIS from “Kurdistan.” They were our allies in the same manner that the Soviet Union was our ally in WWII. I have not a fucking clue as to what to do. The glib answer is the creation of an autonomous, if not independent, state for the Kurds on far less ground than they currently occupy in combination in Syria, Turkey, Iran, etc. That’s probably a hundred year project. Lets not pretend Trump’s idiocy means that anyone else has a long term solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, KUGRDON said: I totally agree. He is an idiot. But be honest, were the results in Syria any better while Obama was President? Quantify. Did Russian and Iranian influence in Syria increase or decrease? Violent deaths of civilians? Refugees? Homeless? We, meaning none of us, have this disengagement thingy worked out. We cannot arm and train indigenous armed forces (such as the Kurds) to do our bidding (fighting ISIS) in places like the Middle East without upsetting the regional balance of power and thereby inflame historic rivalries. The Kurds want an independent state bordering Syria, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Georgia, etc. taking land from most of those countries. How’s that going to work? I find the abandonment of an ally like this just horrible and as a breach of faith. At the same time, looking out 100 years, no matter what happens now, there will be war most likely leading to a practical genocide of the Kurds without a dramatic and ongoing commitment of American force. Much of this problem is due to the fact that we’ve armed and emboldened the Kurds to fight ISIS (so that we didn’t have to put “boots on the ground” in a sufficient number to defeat ISIS ourselves.) The Kurds are now turning the weapons and training they obtained (from us) to fight ISIS on Turkey who they view as an interloper into “Kurdistan” the same way ISIS was. For its part, Turkey does not want an armed Kurdish military along the Turkey/Syria border sending weapons and fighters into Turkey in pursuit of their nationalist desires. Understandable. The Kurds were not fighting ISIS for the US. They were fighting to remove ISIS from “Kurdistan.” They were our allies in the same manner that the Soviet Union was our ally in WWII. I have not a fucking clue as to what to do. The glib answer is the creation of an autonomous, if not independent, state for the Kurds on far less ground than they currently occupy in combination in Syria, Turkey, Iran, etc. That’s probably a hundred year project. Lets not pretend Trump’s idiocy means that anyone else has a long term solution. I love middle east preaching from guys who gave full-throated support to W and President Dick Cheney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUGRDON Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 You’re usual contribution to conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quack 12 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, KUGRDON said: Lets not pretend Trump’s idiocy means that anyone else has a long term solution. Unfortunately, this is completely true, but abandoning the Kurds is essentially condemning them to death, and they'll take a boatload of Turks and Syrians and Iranians and Russians with them. If we can live with ourselves, then so be it, although we might have staved it off for quite awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scscsc89 Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 4 hours ago, glduck said: good god Unbelievably, it actually gets worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scscsc89 Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glduck Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Consistently amazed at what this White House shows us on purpose, under the impression it will make them look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 16 hours ago, KUGRDON said: You’re usual contribution to conversation. Your* I'm unclear what more was needed. You've been pretty terrible on this issue. You supported the Iraq War, and then blamed Obama for ISIS. Your judgment is either terrible, or you're chronically dishonest in your discussions of how ME events have unfolded. Or, more likely, you're so blatantly partisan that the idea of the GOP bearing ANY responsibility for anything terrifies you. Hence you've NEVER criticized Trump without including some tit-for-tat bullshit about Obama or Hillary. Your party nominated a deranged, emotionally disturbed moron with megalomania issues that ALL of us saw coming. Own it, fuckstain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 9 hours ago, Scscsc89 said: Is this the most clear case of arrested development in a human being, or is it just more noticeable because he's lucked into the presidency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scscsc89 Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 some people think Trump is making America great & will have no hesitation voting for him again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Fuck me, I find myself sympathizing with an actual dictator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruin 70 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 I buy the first part totally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaG Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Sorry Pac12 Chickenhawk warmongers, cease fire announced. Where is your next place to send #notyourkids to die? https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/vice-president-mike-pence-seeks-syria-ceasefire-turkey/story?id=66345538 Turkey has agreed to a ceasefire in northern Syria between its forces and their allied rebels and U.S.-backed Syrian Kurds, Vice President Mike Pence announced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, PapaG said: Sorry Pac12 Chickenhawk warmongers, cease fire announced. Where is your next place to send #notyourkids to die? https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/vice-president-mike-pence-seeks-syria-ceasefire-turkey/story?id=66345538 Turkey has agreed to a ceasefire in northern Syria between its forces and their allied rebels and U.S.-backed Syrian Kurds, Vice President Mike Pence announced. lol "It will be a pause in military operation for 120 hours, while the United States facilitates the withdrawal of YPG (the People's Protection Units) from the affected areas in the safe zone. And once that is completed, Turkey has agreed to a permanent ceasefire and the United States of America will work with Turkey -- will work with nations around the world -- to make sure peace and stability are the order of the day in this safe zone," Pence said at a news conference. So it's temporary, and then it will be permanent...which begs the question "why are they calling it temporary"? I mean, far be it from this administration to lie its ass off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaG Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Rats and RINO neo-cons wanted open war by the USA against Turkey. Yet Trump is the unstable one? Trump could cure cancer and TDS sufferers would bemoan all the unemployed oncologists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaG Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Orange said: lol "It will be a pause in military operation for 120 hours, while the United States facilitates the withdrawal of YPG (the People's Protection Units) from the affected areas in the safe zone. And once that is completed, Turkey has agreed to a permanent ceasefire and the United States of America will work with Turkey -- will work with nations around the world -- to make sure peace and stability are the order of the day in this safe zone," Pence said at a news conference. So it's temporary, and then it will be permanent...which begs the question "why are they calling it temporary"? I mean, far be it from this administration to lie its ass off... Go enlist, Rambo. Chickenhawks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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