Obama the best economic prez of modern times

[Orange]

www.forbes.com/sites/adamhartung/2014/09/05/obama-outperforms-reagan-on-jobs-growth-and-investing/


Deitrick: â€President Reagan has long been considered the best modern economic President. So we compared his performance dealing with the oil-induced recession of the 1980s with that of President Obama and his performance during this ‘Great Recession.’ 



“As this unemployment chart shows, President Obama’s job creation kept unemployment from peaking at as high a level as President Reagan, and promoted people into the workforce faster than President Reagan.



“President Obama has achieved a 6.1% unemployment rate in his sixth year, fully one year faster than President Reagan did. At this point in his presidency, President Reagan was still struggling with 7.1% unemployment, and he did not reach into the mid-low 6% range for another full year. So, despite today’s number, the Obama administration has still done considerably better at job creating and reducing unemployment than did the Reagan administration.
 

[PAC MAN]

Obama has benefited from some global economic trends that Regan didn't have during his time.  One of them is that the skyrocketing labor costs in China is bring manufacturing jobs back to the US plus the high cost of steel has led to reopenings of steel smelter mills that have been shuttered for a long time.

 

Apple is one of those companies that have brought back jobs making Apple computers. The Mac Pro and I believe the Mac mini are two such computers that are being manufactured in the US as far as I know.  I'm not sure about the new iMacs but at the same time, Apple's share of the computer market (not counting tablets or phones) is increasing while Micro$oft's share is declining.  I know at least 10 people who will be dumping Windows and switching to Mac OS X soon.

 

The nationalist in me says support this country and buy Apple computers.  Like in another Apple thread, I stand by Apple's products and how much they really work.  I am making the effort to move completely away from Micro$oft for computers by having a stronger focus on Linux for gaming.  Some of my favorite Windows games can be run on Linux using WINE but I haven't tried that until I install the GPU in my Linux computer that I am about done building.

 

Keep an eye on the price of oil..just like during the Regan years...if it keeps going down, it will not necessarily be good for this nation's economy and many people within the energy industry could be out of jobs as oil companies will be reporting disappointing reports sooner than later.  It will bring the unemployment numbers up again.  Obama could still see his unemployment numbers being above Regan's when he leaves office.

 

Obama also has worked harder than any previous presidents (IMO) in getting manufacturing jobs back to the US and the ecomonic environment is ripe for that such as with the increased production of oil & natural gas and manufacturing jobs returning to the US (and Mexico & Canada).  I believe Obama's legacy will be defined by how strong manufacturing is in the next 10 years.

 

It will be necessary to invest more money into manufacturing jobs since the cost of apprentinceship & training would be lower than the cost of going to four year colleges (from what I have seen online) and we do not need to be adding much more money to the national student loan debt.  Welding jobs are going to open up due to the coming retirement of the baby boomers (same with government employees).  I'm sure other blue collar jobs are going to open up sooner than later for the same reasons (retiring workers).

 

Before declaring one the greatest modern president, one needs to look at the economic environments that particular POTUS faced during his time in the White House.

[Orange]

Forbes did that.  Try reading the link.  I understand that Forbes is a shill for the poor and middle-class and for socialists, but try to get past their bias.

[PAC MAN]

Forbes did that.  Try reading the link.  I understand that Forbes is a shill for the poor and middle-class and for socialists, but try to get past their bias.

 

Never viewed Forbes in that kind of light.  I see it as a place where it discusses $$$ which is part of my job.

 

Forbes didn't do what I did and that was consider the economic environment it is in compared to that time.  That article also fails to recognize the foundation that George W. Bush laid for our eventual energy independence and Obama in some ways is continuing that (higher CAFE standards for cars & trucks) and in some ways hurting that (Keystone XL pipeline).

 

We all know that Clinton benefitted from Reagan and H. Bush's times in office.  That is exactly what Obama is going through.  Plus Obama has the added benefit of seeing what happened under Carter versus what happened under Reagan.

 

I shudder at the thought of what kind of legacy that Obama leaves that will affect us after his term is up.

[KUGRDON]

Garbage In, Garbage Out.

 

The reason the unemployment rate fell faster under Obama is that so many people, over 6 million, permanently left the workplace during his Presidency.  Thus, given the wide disparity between the workforce participation percentages between now and 30 years ago, it is foolish to compare unemployment rates.

 

 

Last week, Adam Hartung qualified for the "Mark Twain Award" if there was such a thing. In his article, "Obama Outperforms Reagan On Jobs, Growth & Investing," Adam goes to some length to try and show that the unemployment rate, the S&P 500 and economic growth are currently better under the current administration than they were during the Reagan administration.

Adam's first mistake was in the use of the Bureau Of Labor Statistics measure of unemployment (U3) as a comparative benchmark of success as President. To wit:

"“President Obama has achieved a 6.1% unemployment rate in his 6th year, fully one year faster than President Reagan did. At this point in his presidency, President Reagan was still struggling with 7.1% unemployment, and he did not reach into the mid-low 6% range for another full year. So, despite today’s number, the Obama administration has still done considerably better at job creating and reducing unemployment than did the Reagan administration."

While this is "technically true," it falls within Twain's category of a "statistical lie."

The BLS's measure of unemployment has become obfuscated by the rise in the number of individuals that are no longer counted as part of the labor force. As I discussed in "Why The Unemployment Rate Is Irrelevant," the measure of labor force participation is markedly different between Reagan and Obama.

During Reagan's Presidency, workers that were unemployed longer than 52-weeks were still part of the labor force. This inclusion gave a more accurate measure of the relative size of the labor force overall. However, in 1994, Clinton removed individuals from the labor force that were currently unemployed for longer than 52-weeks. This adjustment immediately improved the overall measure of unemployment by shrinking the labor force by some 500,000 individuals. Since then, the number of individuals no longer counted as part of the labor force has swelled to more than 92 million individuals, or roughly 45% of the working age population (16-54) as of the end of 2013

In other words, a large part of the drop in the U-3 unemployment rate is due to the increase in the number of individuals excluded from the workforce. In theory, if the dropout rate continued at the current pace, the unemployment could fall towards zero allowing the Federal Reserve to win the battle of unemployment, but losing the war of economic prosperity.

The chart below shows the annual change in those not counted as part of the labor force by President from 1981-Present.

 

[PAC MAN]

Garbage In, Garbage Out.

 

The reason the unemployment rate fell faster under Obama is that so many people, over 6 million, permanently left the workplace during his Presidency.  Thus, given the wide disparity between the workforce participation percentages between now and 30 years ago, it is foolish to compare unemployment rates.

 

Having thought about that, at my office it's a shock if one or two weeks go without someone announcing their retirement.  There was one retirement party today as well.  I believe that is being played out at many workplaces in this country.  As a result, unemployed college graduates are now filling in the entry level jobs that were once held by the people who are now replacing retiring employees.

 

That's defintely a significant factor in that.  At least those jobs are being filled so the social security tax coffers will continue to be filled.

[KUGRDON]

Having thought about that, at my office it's a shock if one or two weeks go without someone announcing their retirement.  There was one retirement party today as well.  I believe that is being played out at many workplaces in this country.  As a result, unemployed college graduates are now filling in the entry level jobs that were once held by the people who are now replacing retiring employees.

 

That's defintely a significant factor in that.  At least those jobs are being filled so the social security tax coffers will continue to be filled.

 

It has little to do with retirement.  If everyone over the age of 54 is entirely excluded, the labor force participation rates are still far lower today than they were in the 1980s.  The definition of "unemployment rate" is so different today from what it was in the 1980s that it is foolish to compare the numbers.

[PAC MAN]

It has little to do with retirement.  If everyone over the age of 54 is entirely excluded, the labor force participation rates are still far lower today than they were in the 1980s.  The definition of "unemployment rate" is so different today from what it was in the 1980s that it is foolish to compare the numbers.

 

With 10,000 people turning 65 every day for the next 19 years, the number of retirements will still play a factor in shrinking the labor force participation numbers and the unemployment rate as well.  Obama and his replacement will be able to spin those numbers to their favor.

 

But 45% out of the labor force of the 16-45 group ain't good no matter how much you spin it.  That means those people are taking out loans such as student loans, collecting government handouts, etc.

 

That combo of retiring people & people outside of the labor force will surely be helpful to the bottom line of this country.

 

Just a thought...aren't wars fought during times when unemployment are high in a given country?

[Orange]

Never viewed Forbes in that kind of light.  I see it as a place where it discusses $$$ which is part of my job.

 

Forbes didn't do what I did and that was consider the economic environment it is in compared to that time.  That article also fails to recognize the foundation that George W. Bush laid for our eventual energy independence and Obama in some ways is continuing that (higher CAFE standards for cars & trucks) and in some ways hurting that (Keystone XL pipeline).

 

We all know that Clinton benefitted from Reagan and H. Bush's times in office.  That is exactly what Obama is going through.  Plus Obama has the added benefit of seeing what happened under Carter versus what happened under Reagan.

 

I shudder at the thought of what kind of legacy that Obama leaves that will affect us after his term is up.

 

Jesus, get your sarcasm detector checked.

[Orange]

It has little to do with retirement.  If everyone over the age of 54 is entirely excluded, the labor force participation rates are still far lower today than they were in the 1980s.  The definition of "unemployment rate" is so different today from what it was in the 1980s that it is foolish to compare the numbers.

 LMAO!  You're delusional.

 

1/3rd of the country consists of baby boomers, but "it has little to do with retirement"?

 

Ok.

[KUGRDON]

 LMAO!  You're delusional.

 

1/3rd of the country consists of baby boomers, but "it has little to do with retirement"?

 

Ok.

 

Check the stats.  Eliminate all persons over age 54.  Compare the labor participation rates.  Its simple.

[Orange]

Check the stats.  Eliminate all persons over age 54.  Compare the labor participation rates.  Its simple.

 

True, more people are working part-time -- because thanks to Obamacare, THEY CAN.  Full time employment is no longer needed for affordable healthcare.  Only a jaded, hateful conservative would think of that as a bad thing.

[Utefan1211]

I don't and will not believe any numbers that are produced anymore. I am told that our economy is booming yet we continue to borrow money we cannot pay back. More people on food stamps. People dropping out of the workforce. The numbers are bullshit and anyone that believes it is an idiot.

[All Hail]

I don't and will not believe any numbers that are produced anymore. I am told that our economy is booming yet we continue to borrow money we cannot pay back. More people on food stamps. People dropping out of the workforce. The numbers are bullshit and anyone that believes it is an idiot.

What an odd statement. The numbers themselves are fine and factual, it's the way that they are presented that can render them bullshit. It's a fact that the stock market is doing fantastic, it's a fact that corporate earnings are at all-time highs and its a fact that that unemployment is better now than it was when Bush left.

 

Republicans have long believed that strong corporate earnings (job creators) equate to a strong economy but I agree the economy is still in an undesirable state at the moment.

[KUGRDON]

True, more people are working part-time -- because thanks to Obamacare, THEY CAN.  Full time employment is no longer needed for affordable healthcare.  Only a jaded, hateful conservative would think of that as a bad thing.

 

Very revealing comment.  I'll let you consider whether or not you have made a salient point given that part-time workers are considered employed for purposes of calculating the labor force participation rate.

[Utefan1211]

Stay put for a bit.

 

The economy will crash within w few years. With all the borrowing, the value of the dollar is going down. With the value of the dollar declining, the costs of goods will increase with most companies. Inflation will kick in rapidly.

 

The exact same thing just happened in italy and Argentina. Please read about their lack of recovery which has start increased crime, higher suicide rates, more bankruptcies, less hope, more desperation.

 

At some point, we have to pay the Piper. But I'm glad a few of you are soooo happy that the stock market is doing so well. Use your extra funds to buy food storage, guns and ammo. You will need it.

 

Is our country better off than it was 6, 8, 10, 12 years ago? No way. The poor are poorer. The rich are much richer. The middle class and business owners like myself are picking up the burden much more than the wealthy.

 

We've created millions of "victims" that would rather stay home than get a job. They have become so dependent on government that they don't know where to turn. They vote the way they feel will keep their food stamps as they are told that certain parties will take away their charity rather than helping them find a job.

 

The entire system is messed up. Where is my Restart button?

[Orange]

Stay put for a bit.

 

The economy will crash within w few years. With all the borrowing, the value of the dollar is going down. With the value of the dollar declining, the costs of goods will increase with most companies. Inflation will kick in rapidly.

 

The exact same thing just happened in italy and Argentina. Please read about their lack of recovery which has start increased crime, higher suicide rates, more bankruptcies, less hope, more desperation.

 

At some point, we have to pay the Piper. But I'm glad a few of you are soooo happy that the stock market is doing so well. Use your extra funds to buy food storage, guns and ammo. You will need it.

 

Is our country better off than it was 6, 8, 10, 12 years ago? No way. The poor are poorer. The rich are much richer. The middle class and business owners like myself are picking up the burden much more than the wealthy.

 

We've created millions of "victims" that would rather stay home than get a job. They have become so dependent on government that they don't know where to turn. They vote the way they feel will keep their food stamps as they are told that certain parties will take away their charity rather than helping them find a job.

 

The entire system is messed up. Where is my Restart button?

 

Can any of you conservatives make fact-based arguments?  Or do you think Fox N Friends talking points and emotion are, themselves, factual arguments?  It's not true that more people are getting on food stamps, and it's not true that millions would rather be victims and stay home than get a job.  I don't even know you quantify such a vague statement, but it's unsupportable.

 

But please, don't let the facts get in the way of a good right-wing rant.

[PAC MAN]

Stay put for a bit.

 

The economy will crash within w few years. With all the borrowing, the value of the dollar is going down. With the value of the dollar declining, the costs of goods will increase with most companies. Inflation will kick in rapidly.

 

The exact same thing just happened in italy and Argentina. Please read about their lack of recovery which has start increased crime, higher suicide rates, more bankruptcies, less hope, more desperation.

 

At some point, we have to pay the Piper. But I'm glad a few of you are soooo happy that the stock market is doing so well. Use your extra funds to buy food storage, guns and ammo. You will need it.

 

Is our country better off than it was 6, 8, 10, 12 years ago? No way. The poor are poorer. The rich are much richer. The middle class and business owners like myself are picking up the burden much more than the wealthy.

 

We've created millions of "victims" that would rather stay home than get a job. They have become so dependent on government that they don't know where to turn. They vote the way they feel will keep their food stamps as they are told that certain parties will take away their charity rather than helping them find a job.

 

The entire system is messed up. Where is my Restart button?

 

+1

 

I'm a middle class citzen and I agree with you about the middle class being squeezed out by the poor & rich.  It appears that everything has became more expensive under Obama.  There's a word for that: inflation.  At least the prices at the gas pump are around $3/gal but it really isn't helping that much anyway.

[All Hail]

Stay put for a bit.

 

The economy will crash within w few years. With all the borrowing, the value of the dollar is going down. With the value of the dollar declining, the costs of goods will increase with most companies. Inflation will kick in rapidly.

 

The exact same thing just happened in italy and Argentina. Please read about their lack of recovery which has start increased crime, higher suicide rates, more bankruptcies, less hope, more desperation.

 

At some point, we have to pay the Piper. But I'm glad a few of you are soooo happy that the stock market is doing so well. Use your extra funds to buy food storage, guns and ammo. You will need it.

 

Is our country better off than it was 6, 8, 10, 12 years ago? No way. The poor are poorer. The rich are much richer. The middle class and business owners like myself are picking up the burden much more than the wealthy.

 

We've created millions of "victims" that would rather stay home than get a job. They have become so dependent on government that they don't know where to turn. They vote the way they feel will keep their food stamps as they are told that certain parties will take away their charity rather than helping them find a job.

 

The entire system is messed up. Where is my Restart button?

 

Wow, so much opinion, so little fact.  You seem to have it all figured out, you can make a ton of money by shorting the dollar, shorting the SPY, or shorting the banks.  Come on now, you are so convinced of what is/will be happening, how could you possibly be wrong?  

 

I'd encourage you to learn more about what affects the value of currency as it's far more complicated than the fact that we've borrowed money.  The dollar has gained value against all other western currencies for 6 years and counting.  http://fortune.com/2014/09/25/will-the-u-s-dollars-rise-last/

[Orange]

+1

 

I'm a middle class citzen and I agree with you about the middle class being squeezed out by the poor & rich.  It appears that everything has became more expensive under Obama.  There's a word for that: inflation.  At least the prices at the gas pump are around $3/gal but it really isn't helping that much anyway.

 

There has been very little inflation under Obama as compared to prior administrations.  I have no clue where you're getting this.  Care to back it up?

 

Oh, nevermind, you'll probably just vanish.