Texas and Oklahoma leaving Big 12?

[Orange]

On 9/14/2021 at 9:57 AM, HLB said:

It was one tree. 

Are you EVER right about anything?

https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/2020/07/alabama-fan-harvey-updyke-poisoner-of-auburn-trees-dead-at-71.html

Harvey Updyke became a household name among Alabama sports fans in 2011 when he called into the Paul Finebaum radio show claiming to have poisoned Auburn’s iconic trees after the Tigers’ win in the Iron Bowl the previous November.

“Let me tell you what I did,” Updyke told Finebaum on live radio. “The weekend after the Iron Bowl, I went to Auburn because I lived 30 miles away, and I poisoned the two Toomer’s trees. I put Spike 80DF in ‘em. They’re not dead yet, but they definitely will die.”

 

Do you know what a plural word looks like?  It looks like that, dipshit.  I didn't even read the rest of your tired tripe since you can't get the simplest fact correct.  First you think the Pac 12 has 10 teams, now you don't know that "trees" means more than one.

Just shut the fuck up and troll somewhere else, asshole.

[HLB]

On 9/14/2021 at 11:54 AM, Quack 12 said:

This is complete hogwash. Please provide a link supporting any of this nonsense. Sleep deprivation? Are you kidding me? Why did the Big XII go to a nine-game conference schedule? Nutritional concerns? WTF?

When the 12-game schedule started in 2006, the Pac-10 went to a nine game conference schedule because it made perfect sense; it was a full round robin schedule.

The PAC12 added two teams in 2010, and a round-robin schedule was not feasible.  So they went to two divisions. 

In 2015, study was conducted, at the request from the PAC12 commissioner's office.  Here is what they found, and why they decided to remain with the 9-game conference schedule:

Study: Pac-12 Athletes Burned Out, Sleep-Deprived - Athletic Business

"A study of Pac-12 Conference student-athletes has found that an average of 50 hours per week is consumed by the individual's given sport, with as much time spent traveling (22 hours) as is devoted to the actual athletic activity (21 hours). The result is students sacrificing sleep as they try to keep pace on the field and in the classroom.

The study, conducted by Penn Shoen and Berland, surveyed 409 students in all sports at nine of the league's 12 schools. USC, Arizona and Utah did not participate. It is part of the Pac-12's larger commitment to student-athlete welfare. Study participants reported that “sleep is the number-one thing their athletic time commitments prevent them from doing, ultimately hindering their athletic and academic performance.”

More than 70 percent of the athletes said their athletic commitments were hindering their sleep schedule more than anything else. Moreover, the idea that "voluntary" workouts actually be voluntary and the creation of a rule that practices cannot begin before 6 a.m. or conclude after 10 p.m. were listed by athletes as the most appealing among eight proposed reforms.

Whether this serves as a wake-up call for conference decision-makers remains to be seen. Jamie Zaninovich, the Pac-12 deputy commissioner and chief operating officer, told Huffington Post, "“The next step for us is to take the conversation that was started here and to report on that with our larger group of administrators and coaches."

(2) The Big12 went to a 9-game conference schedule because they only had 10 teams and a round-robin schedule made sense.  Additionally, they are in the middle of the country, so there is no cross-country travel, to the extent that the PAC12 faces.

[utenation]

On 9/7/2021 at 1:13 PM, HLB said:

The PAC12 only has ten teams, and yet they call themselves he PAC12.  The Big Ten has 14 teams, and yet they call themselves the Big Ten.

 

LOL.

[EastCoastFan]

On 9/14/2021 at 12:57 PM, HLB said:

Alabama, Arkansas, Auburn, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State and TXA&M make up the West Division.

Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Misouri, South Carolina and Vanderbilt make up the East Division.

Arkansas's regular crossover is TXA&M.  Missouri's regular seasonal crossover is South Carolina.

This is so very odd, but it probably makes sense  Even the stupidest of Pac-12 fan knows that you can't have a "crossover" when two teams are in the same division.  But things are so slow in the SEC that they somehow think that Mizzou vs the Gamecocks is a crossover, and A&M vs Arkie is a crossover!  I knew things are challenged in the SEC, but this may explain whey they have such a confused time, scheduling directional schools (e.g., Eastern Carolina) rather than the real thing, and never having a successful incursion over the Mason Dixon Line.

[Orange]

On 9/14/2021 at 10:13 AM, HLB said:

The PAC12 added two teams in 2010, and a round-robin schedule was not feasible.  So they went to two divisions. 

Wrong as usual.  It was 2011.

On 9/14/2021 at 10:13 AM, HLB said:

In 2015, study was conducted, at the request from the PAC12 commissioner's office.  Here is what they found, and why they decided to remain with the 9-game conference schedule:

Study: Pac-12 Athletes Burned Out, Sleep-Deprived - Athletic Business

"A study of Pac-12 Conference student-athletes has found that an average of 50 hours per week is consumed by the individual's given sport, with as much time spent traveling (22 hours) as is devoted to the actual athletic activity (21 hours). The result is students sacrificing sleep as they try to keep pace on the field and in the classroom.

The study, conducted by Penn Shoen and Berland, surveyed 409 students in all sports at nine of the league's 12 schools. USC, Arizona and Utah did not participate. It is part of the Pac-12's larger commitment to student-athlete welfare. Study participants reported that “sleep is the number-one thing their athletic time commitments prevent them from doing, ultimately hindering their athletic and academic performance.”

More than 70 percent of the athletes said their athletic commitments were hindering their sleep schedule more than anything else. Moreover, the idea that "voluntary" workouts actually be voluntary and the creation of a rule that practices cannot begin before 6 a.m. or conclude after 10 p.m. were listed by athletes as the most appealing among eight proposed reforms.

Whether this serves as a wake-up call for conference decision-makers remains to be seen. Jamie Zaninovich, the Pac-12 deputy commissioner and chief operating officer, told Huffington Post, "“The next step for us is to take the conversation that was started here and to report on that with our larger group of administrators and coaches."

(2) The Big12 went to a 9-game conference schedule because they only had 10 teams and a round-robin schedule made sense.  Additionally, they are in the middle of the country, so there is no cross-country travel, to the extent that the PAC12 faces.

Not one word of that "study" mentions road trips.  IN fact, it singles out "voluntary" practices and limitations on practice hours as "the most appealing" reform.

Again, you're never right about anything.  Ever.

[utenation]

On 9/12/2021 at 5:53 AM, HLB said:

Live vicariously through what 1 or 2 other schools are doing?  You mean like the PAC12 living through Oregon?  Or the Big Ten living through Ohio State?  Or the ACC living through Clemson?  Or the Big12 living through Oklahoma?  Or the way the PAC12 is living off of a once-in-forty years win by UCLA; or a once in the history of CFB for Oregon over Ohio State?

Since 2008, the SEC has had NC in Florida (twice), LSU and Auburn, in addition to Alabama.  LSU and Auburn also played in two other NC games, while UGA has played in one.  Auburn has beaten BAMA in 3 of the last seven meetings.  There are more teams than just BAMA, in the SEC, you just choose to ignore them.

And when did UCLA suddenly become a power?  This year?  The jury is still out on this year.  Don't make it sound like UCLA as been an annual power, because of one game, when they've been completely irrelevant for 40 years. LSU is not a strong team this season, and they will probably lose 4-5 games.

All that being said, the "punching bag" comment was from someone else that I was quoting.  The "punching bag" opponents that the Pac-12 routinely play are the same annual West Coast FCS opponents, and MWC G5 opponents - as well as BYU, four or five times per year.

Look beyond this season.  Look at history.  Look at the last 10-plus years.  SEC teams have played more ranked OOC opponents than any other conference - by far.  The PAC12 plays roughly 30 OOC opponents.  Roughly 28% of those OOC opponents are FCS programs (highest percentage of all conferences).  They also lose to more FCS and G5 opponents than any other conference.  The primary savior of PAC12's OOC play is the annual game between USC and ND, or Stanford and ND.

The PAC12 isn't scheduling a gauntlet of OOC opponents, as you would imply.  Ohio State will lose once or twice more, because their defense (particularly the run defense) is not very good.  LSU is not going to beat BAMA, Florida, TXA&M, Auburn, or maybe even Arkansas and/or Ole Miss.  Time will tell just how big (or small) that UCLA win will be.  And it doesn't matter if a PAC12 team like Washington schedules Michigan, when they can't beat Montana and Arkansas State.

How about these PAC12 losses, so far this year:  Utah State, Montana, Michigan, BYU (twice), SDSU, TCU, TXA&M, Nevada, Purdue, Kansas State .... Has the SEC lost that many games to OOC opponents, particularly when stepping down a division or two?  In all probability, the PAC12 will lose twice to ND, one more time to BYU, perhaps one more time to SDSU, possibly to Fresno State, I predict Arkansas State, and maybe even Vanderbilt (one of the worst programs in CFB history).  Compare those losses to that of the SEC:  Pitt, UCLA, and ETSU.

But the point I was trying to make is that the fact that the PAC12 tends to lose so many of their OOC games - even when they play down a level or two - is what hurts the PAC12's CFP chances.

You can bark about who the SEC schedules, but at least they are beating the majority of their opponents - something the PAC12 can't say.

 

Honest question.. Do you really think you have a penny's worth of credibility here when you don't even know how many or which teams play in this conference? You spend a 1/2 hour writing embarrassing 20 page novel posts that no one with an IQ above 80 can tolerate to read or even get past the first sentence. 

Didn't we all agree a few years ago that you would let @Quack 12 be your personal editor and fact checker before publishing these romantic novels?

I mean the least you could do is summarize for us with "I'm completely clueless" on each post. At least you would be taken serious with that.

 

[EastCoastFan]

On 9/14/2021 at 2:14 PM, utenation said:

Honest question.. Do you really think you have a penny's worth of credibility here when you don't even know how many or which teams play in this conference? You spend a 1/2 hour writing embarrassing 20 page novel posts that no one with an IQ above 80 can tolerate to read or even get past the first sentence. 

Didn't we all agree a few years ago that you would let @Quack 12 be your personal editor and fact checker before publishing these romantic novels?

I mean the least you could do is summarize for us with "I'm completely clueless" on each post. At least you would be taken serious with that.

 

utenation, I see that hlb had you (and Colorado) added to the Pac-10 in 2010.  Odd, but given that he's such an expert, does that means your 2010 MWC record of 7-1 that year is invalidated and will have to be stricken from the NCAA record books?

[utenation]

On 9/14/2021 at 12:31 PM, EastCoastFan said:

utenation, I see that hlb had you (and Colorado) added to the Pac-10 in 2010.  Odd, but given that he's such an expert, does that means your 2010 MWC record of 7-1 that year is invalidated and will have to be stricken from the NCAA record books?

Yes. We are all using HLB logic now.

It’s all invalid… wipe it from the books

[Quack 12]

On 9/14/2021 at 10:13 AM, HLB said:

Here is what they found, and why they decided to remain with the 9-game conference schedule:

That link doesn't confirm your statement at all. It makes no mention of football or a nine-game conference schedule. They surveyed 409 students in all sports. Do you think student-athletes from any other conference would answer differently?

For the record, the reason the SEC plays an eight-game conference schedule isn't in the interest of student welfare or to help the athletic budgets of lower-tier schools. It's because they get another virtual bye home game, usually late in the season. This year it's November 20, when most of the SEC will be padding their records against the likes of Prairie View A&M and New Mexico State.

 

 

 

[EastCoastFan]

On 9/14/2021 at 2:33 PM, utenation said:

Yes. We are all using HLB logic now.

It’s all invalid… wipe it from the books

A top aide to the person who previously occupied the White House indicated that they clung to what were creatively described as "Alternate Facts."  That's better than Alternate Farts, but both would describe what we've been hearing on this board.

[utenation]

On 9/14/2021 at 12:35 PM, Quack 12 said:

That link doesn't confirm your statement at all. It makes no mention of football or a nine-game conference schedule. They surveyed 409 students in all sports. Do you think student-athletes from any other conference would answer differently?

For the record, the reason the SEC plays an eight-game conference schedule isn't in the interest of student welfare or to help the athletic budgets of lower-tier schools. It's because they get another virtual bye home game, usually late in the season. This year it's November 20, when most of the SEC will be padding their records against the likes of Prairie View A&M and New Mexico State.

 

 

 

 

[HLB]

On 9/14/2021 at 1:14 PM, utenation said:

Honest question.. Do you really think you have a penny's worth of credibility here when you don't even know how many or which teams play in this conference? You spend a 1/2 hour writing embarrassing 20 page novel posts that no one with an IQ above 80 can tolerate to read or even get past the first sentence. 

Didn't we all agree a few years ago that you would let @Quack 12 be your personal editor and fact checker before publishing these romantic novels?

I mean the least you could do is summarize for us with "I'm completely clueless" on each post. At least you would be taken serious with that.

 

You only have to fact check the topic to validate my statements on Texas and Oklahoma.  Everything I said here about Texas and Oklahoma can be found with simple searches on the internet.

As for the PAC12 .... Twelve teams, as of 2010.  Arizona, AZ State, California, Colorado, USC, UCLA, Washington, Washington State, Utah Stanford, Oregon and Oregon State.

How did I do?

On another note, Utah better be prepared for SDSU, or it they may experience the same thing that they did with BYU.

[Quack 12]

On 9/14/2021 at 3:27 PM, HLB said:

Everything I said here about Texas and Oklahoma can be found with simple searches on the internet.

This is probably true, because you didn't write anything about Texas or Oklahoma on this thread.

[utenation]

On 9/14/2021 at 4:27 PM, HLB said:

You only have to fact check the topic to validate my statements on Texas and Oklahoma.  Everything I said here about Texas and Oklahoma can be found with simple searches on the internet.

As for the PAC12 .... Twelve teams, as of 2010.  Arizona, AZ State, California, Colorado, USC, UCLA, Washington, Washington State, Utah Stanford, Oregon and Oregon State.

How did I do?

On another note, Utah better be prepared for SDSU, or it they may experience the same thing that they did with BYU.

I was dead serious about you hiring Quack12 as your editor. I would even split half his cost with you. Do it for the greater good of society man…

I would recommend @Orangefor that job but for some reason, I don’t think you two would get along..

Let me know. PayPal and Venmo works for me.

[HLB]

On 9/14/2021 at 1:10 PM, EastCoastFan said:

This is so very odd, but it probably makes sense  Even the stupidest of Pac-12 fan knows that you can't have a "crossover" when two teams are in the same division.  But things are so slow in the SEC that they somehow think that Mizzou vs the Gamecocks is a crossover, and A&M vs Arkie is a crossover!  I knew things are challenged in the SEC, but this may explain whey they have such a confused time, scheduling directional schools (e.g., Eastern Carolina) rather than the real thing, and never having a successful incursion over the Mason Dixon Line.

I had that backwards.  Mizzou plays Arkansas and TXA&M plays South Carolina.  An honest mistake.  I knew it in my head, but wrote it down backwards.  At least are not delusional, like PAC12 fans, who think the SEC success is all rigged, and are of the belief that an extra conference game would "do the SEC in", when in fact, it would only prove otherwise.  PAC12 fans think that the reason their stadiums are only half full (they didn't use to be that way) on Saturday afternoons is because of competition for the entertainment dollar.  There's tons of entertainment in Southern cities.  Vanderbilt - one of the worst teams in all of college football - fills their meager 40,000 seat stadium - on a Saturday night -  when other the Predators are playing hockey, ZZ-Top is playing at the Ryman, TPAC has a Broadway production, Keith Urban might be playing a concert, the River-front Amphitheatre might have a band like Train playing, and the Titans are playing the next day ... ALL in one night.  All within blocks of one another.  So the excuse for poor attendance - particularly at schools like Utah, Stanford, Arizona, AZ State, Wazzu, Washington, and Cal - because of the entertainment dollar, is absurd.

And in the last ten years, I can think of several successful incursion over the Mason Dixon Line.

Road wins at PSU, Purdue, Indiana, Boston College, Notre Dame, West Va., Washington, Syracuse ....

How many Road wins has the Big10 or the PAC12 had south of the Mason Dixon Line? 

[HLB]

On 9/14/2021 at 5:48 PM, Quack 12 said:

This is probably true, because you didn't write anything about Texas or Oklahoma on this thread.

I wrote something earlier, that was being referenced.  You can look for it.

[HLB]

On 9/14/2021 at 6:02 PM, utenation said:

I was dead serious about you hiring Quack12 as your editor. I would even split half his cost with you. Do it for the greater good of society man…

I would recommend @Orangefor that job but for some reason, I don’t think you two would get along..

Let me know. PayPal and Venmo works for me.

@Orange doesn't get along with anyone who doesn't bow down to him.  He thinks he's the smartest guy in the room, but doesn't realize how childish and ignorant he can be.  I question his abilities as an attorney.  That being said, he doesn't bother me.  But I apparently bother him.

No need to hire Quack12.  You seem to be doing a good enough job, for free.  But if Quack12 wants to edit my writings, that's his choice -  he's free to do so.

[utenation]

On 9/14/2021 at 5:06 PM, HLB said:

I had that backwards.  Mizzou plays Arkansas and TXA&M plays South Carolina.  An honest mistake.  I knew it in my head, but wrote it down backwards.  At least are not delusional, like PAC12 fans, who think the SEC success is all rigged, and are of the belief that an extra conference game would "do the SEC in", when in fact, it would only prove otherwise.  PAC12 fans think that the reason their stadiums are only half full (they didn't use to be that way) on Saturday afternoons is because of competition for the entertainment dollar.  There's tons of entertainment in Southern cities.  Vanderbilt - one of the worst teams in all of college football - fills their meager 40,000 seat stadium - on a Saturday night -  when other the Predators are playing hockey, ZZ-Top is playing at the Ryman, TPAC has a Broadway production, Keith Urban might be playing a concert, the River-front Amphitheatre might have a band like Train playing, and the Titans are playing the next day ... ALL in one night.  All within blocks of one another.  So the excuse for poor attendance - particularly at schools like Utah, Stanford, Arizona, AZ State, Wazzu, Washington, and Cal - because of the entertainment dollar, is absurd.

And in the last ten years, I can think of several successful incursion over the Mason Dixon Line.

Road wins at PSU, Purdue, Indiana, Boston College, Notre Dame, West Va., Washington, Syracuse ....

How many Road wins has the Big10 or the PAC12 had south of the Mason Dixon Line? 

Dude…. Learn the word paragraph…. Your babble is so hard to read… 

Anyways, I’m curious where you got your poor attendance numbers for Utah?

 I’m pretty sure Utah is at or above 100% capacity and has been for many years. We just expanded last year and our first game this year had about 51,500 against an FCS foe which is just above 100%.
 

Even with expansion, we still have a waiting list.

Do you mind sharing your special link with special attendance numbers?

Thanks in advance buddy.

 

[utenation]

On 9/14/2021 at 5:10 PM, HLB said:

@Orange doesn't get along with anyone who doesn't bow down to him.  He thinks he's the smartest guy in the room, but doesn't realize how childish and ignorant he can be.  I question his abilities as an attorney.  That being said, he doesn't bother me.  But I apparently bother him.

No need to hire Quack12.  You seem to be doing a good enough job, for free.  But if Quack12 wants to edit my writings, that's his choice -  he's free to do so.

One thing I know for sure is Orange is 10 X smarter than you. No question. 

[HLB]

On 9/14/2021 at 1:43 PM, utenation said:

For the record, the reason the SEC plays an eight-game conference schedule isn't in the interest of student welfare or to help the athletic budgets of lower-tier schools. It's because they get another virtual bye home game, usually late in the season. This year it's November 20, when most of the SEC will be padding their records against the likes of Prairie View A&M and New Mexico State.

 

I have a former roommate who is an AD at an FCS school.  He will tell you that without playing P5 opponents, and receiving that $1M, or greater pay out, funds their athletic budget for the year.  Without that income, their athletic department would cease to exist.

And I never said the SEC plays an 8-game schedule in the interest of student welfare.  I said that about the PAC12.

What proof do you have to support what your words, that it's to get another "virtual bye" home game?  Give me a link.

Most of the time, SEC teams are opening their season with a P5 OOC opponent, or a conference game, while other schools are padding their records in September, by playing FCS or G5 opponents (to pad their resume and climb in the rankings).  SEC teams used to have a bye week, in the third week of November, so that teams could "heal up", before their rivalry game - which is always played in the last week of the season.  But fans didn't like having two weeks between games, so they scheduled lightweight opponents, to have a game for the fans, but without running the risk of injuring key players before the rivalry game.  They typically play reserves in these games, and have done so since the 70's.  This isn't something they started doing when the BCS came into fruition, or when the playoffs came to be.  Doesn't everyone in Oregon already know this?  You all seem to think you know everything else about the SEC - an area of the country that the majority of you have never visited, let alone lived.

Furthermore, in a typical year, most SEC teams have played 2 conference games by week four, when teams from other conferences are just starting conference play.  That means, when the third week of November comes around, most SEC teams have completed their conference schedule - other than their rivalry game.  AND, more times than not, the teams who are going to play for the conference championship have already been decided, by the third week of November.  So in short, they're taking a greater risk with tougher games earlier in the season, and the late season games generally don't have an impact, because the conference results have already been determined.