Coaching Changes

[Scscsc89]

It will be interesting to see how the early signing period impacts coach signings — some programs could really be left with a bare cupboard.

[PAC MAN]

MacIntyre is signed through the 2021 season thanks to that contract extension he signed earlier this year.  If it wasn't for that contract extension, he would probably be gone after the conclusion of this season.

His conference winning % is only .002 better than what Dan Hawkins was able to achieve in five seasons at CU in the Big 12.  But what separates MM from Hawkins and Embree is how he has managed the roster during his tenure at CU and that is why CU has been competitive in conference play under MM and that is what I wanted MM to accomplish at CU.

What I want to see from MM going forward is to go bowling per season and it's possible that CU falls short of that this season but for 2018 and 2019, it is a must if MM is to stay at CU.

I expect some coaching changes this offseason and like 89 said, it's going to be interesting due to the early signing period.

[glduck]

the more i think about it the more i'm certain that osu is going to end up hiring beau baldwin. i doubt he'd be picky; northwest ties, several wins over pac-12 schools during his time at eastern; good system coach that doesn't take high-level athletes to succeed. 

[EastCoastFan]

Baldwin would not be a bad choice.  He's accomplished and affordable.  A smart and seasoned guy.  The big question would be whether he can assemble a staff that can do what he didn't have to do at Eastern Washington -- recruit at a Power Five level to a place like Corvallis where you have to import most of your players.

[Orange]

3 hours ago, Downthefield said:

Baldwin would not be a bad choice.  He's accomplished and affordable.  A smart and seasoned guy.  The big question would be whether he can assemble a staff that can do what he didn't have to do at Eastern Washington -- recruit at a Power Five level to a place like Corvallis where you have to import most of your players.

Very few programs DON'T have to do this.  You make little sense, and frequently.

You really think he got all the EWU talent he needed in Cheney, WA?

[EastCoastFan]

1 hour ago, Orange said:

Very few programs DON'T have to do this.  You make little sense, and frequently.

You really think he got all the EWU talent he needed in Cheney, WA?

It's not that hard to get a marginal football player to head to Eastern Washington, and if you're a great coach like Baldwin is, then coach him up to play at that level.  Not so easy to get a blue chip to land in Corvallis.  Oregon, quite frankly, is (at least in general) a disaster for producing top flight high school football players.  To win there, you need powerful connections in SoCal and other recruiting hotspots, with the ability to reduce the impression that those players might hold that they don't want to land in a backwater spot with no national attention.  Leach has been great on getting his team to have profile.  The $$$'s  in Eugene also have overcome the location.  Washington, luckily for them, has the advantage of being in an NFL city that every four-star high school kid knows.  (Side note: it's not necessary to make snarky comments to make your point.  It's what drives people away from these boards.  If you have a good case, just argue the issue.)

[Scscsc89]

The more I think about it, I just cant imagine Mora hanging around another year.

[Nakedmolerat]

6 hours ago, Downthefield said:

It's not that hard to get a marginal football player to head to Eastern Washington, and if you're a great coach like Baldwin is, then coach him up to play at that level.  Not so easy to get a blue chip to land in Corvallis.  Oregon, quite frankly, is (at least in general) a disaster for producing top flight high school football players.  To win there, you need powerful connections in SoCal and other recruiting hotspots, with the ability to reduce the impression that those players might hold that they don't want to land in a backwater spot with no national attention.  Leach has been great on getting his team to have profile.  The $$$'s  in Eugene also have overcome the location.  Washington, luckily for them, has the advantage of being in an NFL city that every four-star high school kid knows.  (Side note: it's not necessary to make snarky comments to make your point.  It's what drives people away from these boards.  If you have a good case, just argue the issue.)

I'm not getting the comparison here. The inverse is also true: Hard to get blue chips to EWU and marginal players can be gotten and coached up by a great coach at OSU. 

[EastCoastFan]

To regularly expect to compete in the Pac-12, you need some blue chips.  You just can't sustain being a consistent year-to-year contender with just coaching up under the radar guys.  If your  school isn't sitting in a recruiting hot bed, you have to have coaches, and also facilities/donors to make you attractive to top players who have a healthy offer list.  A school like Eastern Washington doesn't have that same level of competition, so they can be a consistent winner with players who are less heavily recruited.  That's why I was suggesting that if Bladwin, who is a good coach, is hired, hopefully he'd pull in some recruiting muscle in his key assistants, guys who have a Rolodex for places like the Trinity League, knowing the favorite beers of the HS coaches there. 

[Orange]

14 hours ago, Downthefield said:

It's not that hard to get a marginal football player to head to Eastern Washington, and if you're a great coach like Baldwin is, then coach him up to play at that level.  Not so easy to get a blue chip to land in Corvallis.  Oregon, quite frankly, is (at least in general) a disaster for producing top flight high school football players.  To win there, you need powerful connections in SoCal and other recruiting hotspots, with the ability to reduce the impression that those players might hold that they don't want to land in a backwater spot with no national attention.  Leach has been great on getting his team to have profile.  The $$$'s  in Eugene also have overcome the location.  Washington, luckily for them, has the advantage of being in an NFL city that every four-star high school kid knows.  (Side note: it's not necessary to make snarky comments to make your point.  It's what drives people away from these boards.  If you have a good case, just argue the issue.)

Again, I still don't understand the geography argument.  Corvallis is on the I-5 corridor, less than 90 minutes from a metro area of 2 million, and 45 minutes from Eugene, where they do indeed get blue chips, and compete on a regular basis (or at least they do now).  Pullman (4 hours from any major city) is the only real "backwater" in the conference.  Stillwater: Now there's a backwater.  

Is your point that it takes money to make a program great?  Uh, file that under "no shit."

[Orange]

8 hours ago, Nakedmolerat said:

I'm not getting the comparison here. The inverse is also true: Hard to get blue chips to EWU and marginal players can be gotten and coached up by a great coach at OSU. 

As has been proven.  As much as we all bitched about Riley, his 3-win seasons were the exception, not the norm.

I think a lot of people here are pretending 1999-2013 didn't happen when they think of Oregon State football.

[EastCoastFan]

Riley was a magician.  You should get him back.  He's also is a great guy.

As for the recruiting issue, the point I was attempting to make, is that it's a stark world if you don't have crack recruiters in places like Lubbock or Pullman or Boulder or Lincoln or Corvallis.  The composite 24/7 recruiting ratings show that the entire state of Oregon only produced 10 blue-chip recruits over the full last five years, that with two P5 schools, not one.  Colorado also only produced 10 blue chips; Utah 14, Washington 18, Arizona 24.  And California?  They had 199, behind only Florida (226) and Texas (229).  So teams like OSU and Utah and CU have a real challenge in having to reach to places and land recruits where mom and pop can't drive to the games.  A special coach like Riley (or Ferentz at Iowa) can overcome that with great leadership and player development.  But in most cases raw talent wins games over the long haul, which is why there is heated criticism in places like Lincoln and Boulder right now about the need for hiring a team of assistant coaches with elbows and contacts and recruiting chops.

That's the last I'll say on this.  Other than to state that in no way was I criticizing Corvallis or Oregon, where I've been many times and enjoyed every visit.  Living as I do in Pennsylvania (44 blue chips over the last five years) and New Jersey (41 blue chips), the Northwest looks awfully attractive.

[Orange]

It's never been a secret that the Oregon and Washington schools (as well as Arizona schools) plumb the CA market for recruits.  

And that "magician" has completely underperformed at a powerhouse program with damned-near unlimited resources in Lincoln.  We don't need a magician, we need a solid coach with a solid staff that knows the game, and the way to get the best recruits possible.  In other words, we need what every other program in the U.S. needs.

[KUGRDON]

2 hours ago, Downthefield said:

To regularly expect to compete in the Pac-12, you need some blue chips.  You just can't sustain being a consistent year-to-year contender with just coaching up under the radar guys.  If your  school isn't sitting in a recruiting hot bed, you have to have coaches, and also facilities/donors to make you attractive to top players who have a healthy offer list.  A school like Eastern Washington doesn't have that same level of competition, so they can be a consistent winner with players who are less heavily recruited.  That's why I was suggesting that if Bladwin, who is a good coach, is hired, hopefully he'd pull in some recruiting muscle in his key assistants, guys who have a Rolodex for places like the Trinity League, knowing the favorite beers of the HS coaches there. 

You can have as many wins as any team in the conference and have no blue chips.  You have to coach though.

[Scscsc89]

 

[Orange]

On 11/7/2017 at 11:49 AM, Scscsc89 said:

 

Is Riley already gone?

[RogueDuck]

3 hours ago, Orange said:

Is Riley already gone?

Dead man walking 

[Orange]

10 minutes ago, RogueDuck said:

Dead man walking 

I'm reading he may get one more year.

[PapaG]

On 11/7/2017 at 11:49 AM, Scscsc89 said:

 

That's an odd school to use for leverage since Nebraska pays much better than OS as a baseline.  I'd say the same for Oregon, Wazzu, the Arizona schools, Cal, and Utah as well.

[PAC MAN]

On 11/7/2017 at 10:28 AM, Downthefield said:

Riley was a magician.  You should get him back.  He's also is a great guy.

As for the recruiting issue, the point I was attempting to make, is that it's a stark world if you don't have crack recruiters in places like Lubbock or Pullman or Boulder or Lincoln or Corvallis.  The composite 24/7 recruiting ratings show that the entire state of Oregon only produced 10 blue-chip recruits over the full last five years, that with two P5 schools, not one.  Colorado also only produced 10 blue chips; Utah 14, Washington 18, Arizona 24.  And California?  They had 199, behind only Florida (226) and Texas (229).  So teams like OSU and Utah and CU have a real challenge in having to reach to places and land recruits where mom and pop can't drive to the games.  A special coach like Riley (or Ferentz at Iowa) can overcome that with great leadership and player development.  But in most cases raw talent wins games over the long haul, which is why there is heated criticism in places like Lincoln and Boulder right now about the need for hiring a team of assistant coaches with elbows and contacts and recruiting chops.

That's the last I'll say on this.  Other than to state that in no way was I criticizing Corvallis or Oregon, where I've been many times and enjoyed every visit.  Living as I do in Pennsylvania (44 blue chips over the last five years) and New Jersey (41 blue chips), the Northwest looks awfully attractive.

In the Big 12, CU had the advantage of being the school closer to California than the others.  It worked well for the Buffs for many years in the Big 8 & 12.  In the PAC, the Buffs aren't that far from the Dallas Metroplex and other states.  It'll take time for CU to set roots down in Texas for recruiting like they had in California prior to the move to the Pac-12.

You are correct about the criticism and it is mostly centered around DL recruiting.  Jim Jeffcoat was a former notable NFL lineman for the Dallas Cowboys and it is something that should have benefited him when it comes to recruiting in Texas.  He was the one who discovered ******n Montez while on a recruiting trip to El Paso and he did land the DT he was recruiting.  The problem is that DT (Eddie Lopez) didn't do jack in Boulder and now he's a blocking TE who rarely sees the field.  I had high hopes for Lopez and now he's a straight bust (even if he was just a three star guy).  The play of CU's DL plus Jeffcoat's recruiting over the years probably means Jeffcoat will be one of the coaches which Rick George forces Mike MacIntyre to fire after the season.  The strong CU DL from last season was recruited by the previous coaching staff under Jon Embree I believe.

If CU's DL played as good as the DL last season, there is no reason to doubt that CU could have been on its way to a second consecutive division crown this year which apparently isn't going to happen.

There are at least several more CU coaches that I hope is on the way out after a disappointing season in Boulder.