Scscsc89 Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, Scscsc89 said: what’s not obvious is how having a less-popular, farther-left candidate would’ve made this event any better. If anything, this might have driven even more centrists & independents to Amash — away from whatever blue candidate actually had a chance of beating Trump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 9 minutes ago, Scscsc89 said: I’ve made it very clear that I think this is a bad thing for those of us who believe removing trump is the most important goal, what’s not obvious is how having a less-popular, farther-left candidate would’ve made this event any better. "Less popular"? I don't think that's a given at all. I think Democrats would've voted for a progressive. The difference now is that Democratic enthusiasm is rock-bottom. When's the last time we've been this bored over a candidate? Kerry? Hillary? Either one is a loser. So is Biden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Scscsc89 said: If anything, this might have driven even more centrists & independents to Amash — away from whatever blue candidate actually had a chance of beating Trump To the extent this is true, voter enthusiasm for Bernie would've outweighed it in my mind. "Republicans fall in line. Democrats fall in love." Nobody's in love with Biden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scscsc89 Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 do we really need to cover this again? Tell me how Bernie’s primary campaigns showed that he was the most popular dem candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scscsc89 Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Yes — people who were enthusiastic for Bernie were more enthusiastic than any other base. The problem is that a) there were a lot fewer of them and b) he had two campaigns to get more people to his side & couldn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scscsc89 Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, Orange said: To the extent this is true, voter enthusiasm for Bernie would've outweighed it in my mind. "Republicans fall in line. Democrats fall in love." Nobody's in love with Biden. Your mind can tell you whatever it wants about voter enthusiasm, but Biden trounced Bernie. State numbers show Biden beating Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAC MAN Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Not having to vote for either Trump or Biden is an appealing choice at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glduck Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Trouble in MAGA-land, my dude? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scscsc89 Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Now is not the time for symbolic protest votes that won’t change anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 27 minutes ago, Scscsc89 said: Your mind can tell you whatever it wants about voter enthusiasm, but Biden trounced Bernie. State numbers show Biden beating Trump. Do I really have to explain how fucking useless these polls are? How did that go for Hillary? You don't think Russia has something planned for an October surprise? When the field was full, bernie was #1. He was THE most popular candidate. Then, when Pete and Amy and the rest bowed out, the widespread "pragmatic" attitude settled in (fueled by deathly fear over another 4 years of Trump) and suddenly "Biden is popular"? Sorry, I don't buy that. People were worried that OTHER people wouldn't vote for Bernie. That's why so many voted for Biden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 31 minutes ago, Scscsc89 said: Yes — people who were enthusiastic for Bernie were more enthusiastic than any other base. The problem is that a) there were a lot fewer of them and b) he had two campaigns to get more people to his side & couldn’t. Biden has no base. None. What he has now, is millions (like me) who are willing to settle out of terror over Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 23 minutes ago, Jalapeno said: Not having to vote for either Trump or Biden is an appealing choice at this point. Oh fuck off. You'll vote for Trump regardless of who is on the Dem ticket and you know it. Go sell this shit on Breitbart's/8Chan forums or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scscsc89 Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 46 minutes ago, Orange said: When the field was full, bernie was #1. You mean when only 3 of our smaller states had been counted? Bernie has conceded & endorsed Biden. Why are we re-hashing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scscsc89 Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 56 minutes ago, Orange said: Do I really have to explain how fucking useless these polls are? Yes, please tell me how the 2016 state opinion polls were “fucking useless” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statewide_opinion_polling_for_the_2016_United_States_presidential_election Actual Electoral Count: Trump: 304 Clinton: 227 The map got Wisconsin & Pennsylvania wrong based on a few counties -- Comey's last-minute announcement may have influenced things between the last poll & the election -- but generally these polls told us loud & clear the election was going to be a toss up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mano Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Orange said: Uh, for 1, he's being accused of sexual assault, and he's barely responding to it. For another, Amash has entered the race and that, to me, obviates any of the assumptions we have about right-leaning independents and never-trumpers actively voting for Biden when they have a 3rd option. I thought this was obvious. Going after "moderate Republicans" is a fools errand, they are never going to vote for any Democrat. Obama was by all objective measures a moderate, yet he was painted by the right as being Fidel Castro. We need to turnout the Obama voters that stayed at home during the last election, period. Biden seems like he may do that, we shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quack 12 Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Orange said: What he has now, is millions (like me) who are willing to settle out of terror over Trump. This is spot on, and Amash isn't going to change that - at all. I agree with Sc, I think Amash might have had a larger - though still negligible - effect on Bernie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 What about this sexual assault allegation, and a female VP being forced to answer for it? That'll play well. Because our party is a bunch of cowards, and apologizes for everything, we'll be stuck looking wishy-washy and ambivalent about sexual assault. I'm not trying to set up an "I told you so" moment, I'm really not. I'll get there by accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scscsc89 Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 I guess "blaming Biden/Dems for Amash's decision & so Bernie was the answer all along" wasn't as obvious after all. Seriously, dude, we get it -- you're bummed Bernie didn't win. You TOTALLY believe he would've made a better candidate & president. That's fine, but ... Bernie has conceded and endorsed Biden. Time to move on. No one is asking you to be a Biden defender. Just show up in November and pull the lever. You're making this way more complicated than it is. (and I promise this is my last post on this) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, Scscsc89 said: I guess "blaming Biden/Dems for Amash's decision & so Bernie was the answer" wasn't as obvious after all. Seriously, dude, we get it -- you're bummed Bernie didn't win. You TOTALLY believe he would've made a better candidate & president. That's fine, but ... Bernie has conceded and endorsed Biden. Time to move on. No one is asking you to be a Biden defender. Just show up in November and pull the lever. You're making this way more complicated than it is. Why are you saying a bunch of bullshit that I'm not arguing against? You think I don't know that Bernie is out of the race (as is every other likable Democrat)? Why are you so offended by me being critical of Biden's campaign strategy? Is the politics board suddenly not the place to discuss politics in your eyes? I'll continue to voice my disgust with the wrongheaded republicans and cowardly moderates in our party. Our country is SO past the point of needing institutional change, it would be irresponsible NOT to discuss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scscsc89 Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Scscsc89 said: (and I promise this is my last post on this) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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