What Will Revive the Conference

[Pac12Fan]

As I’m flying into LAX, I read  9 major publications that discussed the future of the PAC 12. The Big 12 is happy with the pac 12’s lack of success as it takes the heat off of them as a crappy conference. The fact of the matter is that the Big 12 is outperforming our conference in nearly every area that counts.  (Television revenue, attendance, national relevance, fans and programs that actually care)

The articles I’m reading discuss, removing teams that bring little to the table, changing the commissioner, combining to create 4 conferences while dropping over 20 schools from P5 status, 2 teams going independent from the PAC or multiple teams joining the BIG 12. Most of the articles claim that outside our region, nobody watches PAC12 football and our next television deal will contain less money as our conference will be seeing the leftovers and the fallout from the ESPN implosion.  

The press (in general) sucks but I see some of their talking points coming to light. 

We are all Monday morning quarterbacks but when your business is hurting, you need to make changes in order to be competitive. 

Move the conference offices out of San Francisco. The rents are way too high which means all the staff is overpaid. 

Move the PAC 12 championship game to a location where the fans will go. The other conferences averaged over 74,000 fans to their championship games. We were lucky to get 50,000 fans to this game.  Even with Stanford in the championship game, we don’t come close to filling the stadium. The Bay Area and college football don’t mix.  Stanford doesn’t care about football as is shown in their own attendance. Cal is not much better. I would rather see the championship game in San Diego, Phoenix or Las Vegas. The casual fan will show up and its not such a hassle and fans love these cities. 

Stop the late starts. Fan attendance is higher for early afternoon games and the rest of the country can watch.  How many Big 10 and Big 12 games start after 7 pm local time?  The mountain time zone and Arizona schools had many games start after 8 pm. I realize it is all about the television $ but less fans want to leave their stadium after 10:30 pm and many fans fall asleep before the games are over or they record them. Many fans aren’t getting home until early Sunday morning. With children, it makes things harder.

I have enjoyed the PAC 12 network but it’s not easily available to all fans across the world.  

I don’t have all the answers but I feel our conference isn’t the same as it once was and we are becoming less significant in the world of major college sports. Our population Region for the conference is approximately 69 million compared with Big 12 of 56 million but more people care about their programs. Big 12 fills 88% of their seats and that includes Kansas. The PAC 12 fills only 64% of their seats. 

We need a powerhouse program that stomps on other teams and creates a mystique. That used to be USC and Washington. Our league has become very mediocre.  Programs like Washington State and Utah are now the equals to USC and a Washington and beat the “big boys” half the time. My own team supposedly recruits very well but it doesn’t resonate on the field.  We don’t beat anyone or go to bowl games. 

We were 1-8 in bowl games and many of the games were not close.  It was embarrassing to the league. 

Im done ranting.  Back to work  

 

[PapaG]

By and large there is just a lot more to do in the majority of Pac 12 territory than in the SEC or Big 12.  We are more sophisticated and less tribal, by and large.  Here in Portland, I've had Memorial Day weekends where I skied Mt. Hood on Saturday, went surfing at Pacific City Sunday, and wakeboarded the Willamette on Monday.  All this within a 1.5 hour drive of my house.  When it's 70 degrees in every Pac 12 town well into October most falls, football just isn't as big a priority as it is in a place like Norman or Starkville, where there is much less to do in terms of outdoor activities, or cultural activities, or even urban activities.

I assume that Wazzu and OSU are the schools that the LA schools don't want to share money with, but the reality is that you do lose TV viewers in the Seattle and Portland markets, and getting rid of those two schools still doesn't resolve people in other regions caring about Pac 12 football.

Nothing is going to change any of my thoughts about the realities of living in the Pac 12 region.  College sports just aren't as important here, and they never will be, compared to the Big 12 and SEC.

[Chile_Ute]

1. P12N needs to get on Direct TV and have a streaming subscription.  Scott needs to bend and get it done.  It is better than not having access at all.

2. CCG should be held in Vegas. Period.  Sam Boyd would be fine until the Raider complex is finished.  Neutral site, easy to travel to and a fixed location.  Easier for fans to make plans.

3. Late starts are harmful....sometimes unavoidable, there are so many time slots on TV.  OOC needs to include Midwest and eastern teams, the MWC teams and NO FCS teams (ever).  

[glduck]

we've all given our thoughts on what the pac-12 can do, but really... we just need to play better football. 

stop shooting ourselves in the foot in september before conference play begins, and for the love of god, start taking bowl games seriously. come bowl season, a lot of the time our teams morph into both the team with inferior talent AND the team with the mindset that it is too good to be there. how the fuck does that even happen. 

[Orange]

35 minutes ago, PapaG said:

By and large there is just a lot more to do in the majority of Pac 12 territory than in the SEC or Big 12.  We are more sophisticated and less tribal, by and large.  Here in Portland, I've had Memorial Day weekends where I skied Mt. Hood on Saturday, went surfing at Pacific City Sunday, and wakeboarded the Willamette on Monday.  All this within a 1.5 hour drive of my house.  When it's 70 degrees in every Pac 12 town well into October most falls, football just isn't as big a priority as it is in a place like Norman or Starkville, where there is much less to do in terms of outdoor activities, or cultural activities, or even urban activities.

I assume that Wazzu and OSU are the schools that the LA schools don't want to share money with, but the reality is that you do lose TV viewers in the Seattle and Portland markets, and getting rid of those two schools still doesn't resolve people in other regions caring about Pac 12 football.

Nothing is going to change any of my thoughts about the realities of living in the Pac 12 region.  College sports just aren't as important here, and they never will be, compared to the Big 12 and SEC.

Every once in a while I agree with 100% of what you post.  This is one of those times.

IMO, the less we have in common with hellholes like Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa and Texas, the better.  There's a reason we don't send an entire city's worth of people to a football game, and it's because we're a smarter, fitter, better society with more options out here.  And if that changed, we'd have bigger problems than a struggling Pac-12 Network.

[Orange]

36 minutes ago, Chile_Ute said:

1. P12N needs to get on Direct TV and have a streaming subscription.  Scott needs to bend and get it done.  It is better than not having access at all.

2. CCG should be held in Vegas. Period.  Sam Boyd would be fine until the Raider complex is finished.  Neutral site, easy to travel to and a fixed location.  Easier for fans to make plans.

3. Late starts are harmful....sometimes unavoidable, there are so many time slots on TV.  OOC needs to include Midwest and eastern teams, the MWC teams and NO FCS teams (ever).  

All these are good ideas.  I hesitate to say no to FCS teams, though, because I think our biggest issue is we simply have fewer wins than ACC and SEC and Big 12 teams, and some of that is due to our relative eschewing of FCS opponents as compared to every team in the SEC, et al (and our 9-game conf schedule)

[PapaG]

25 minutes ago, glduck said:

we've all given our thoughts on what the pac-12 can do, but really... we just need to play better football. 

stop shooting ourselves in the foot in september before conference play begins, and for the love of god, start taking bowl games seriously. come bowl season, a lot of the time our teams morph into both the team with inferior talent AND the team with the mindset that it is too good to be there. how the fuck does that even happen. 

Even adding this year's debacle, the Pac stacks well to every P5 conference not named SEC in bowl games during the BCS/playoff era.

 

[KUGRDON]

I’m not sure that Getting a direct tv deal done to get it done is a good idea.  As soon as that deal is made, all other carriers will negotiate their payment down.  This has been the issue.

[glduck]

well... that record is certainly boosted from playing a whopping 1 bowl game against the SEC, as opposed to the ACC's 35, the Big 12's 37, and the Big 10's 52. we may be playing closer to .500 than the other P5 conferences, but replace our 30 games against the mountain west/wac with any other conference's SEC slate...

[youngorst]

People keep bringing up the late start thing and while it might hurt the PAC more than other conferences its not unique to the PAC. Virtually every school in the country has 3-4 games starting at 6 pm local time or later. Think about how often you are watching a Big Ten or SEC match up in the evening (nearly every week these game are on), those games are starting at 7 or later local time. 

Just to demonstrate Alabama played 7 games that started at 6 pm or later local time. Its not unique to the PAC. 

 

[All Hail]

42 minutes ago, glduck said:

well... that record is certainly boosted from playing a whopping 1 bowl game against the SEC, as opposed to the ACC's 35, the Big 12's 37, and the Big 10's 52. we may be playing closer to .500 than the other P5 conferences, but replace our 30 games against the mountain west/wac with any other conference's SEC slate...

This.  Also, our bowl record since 1968 is irrelevant.  We are clearly trending downward from a performance as well as a revenue standpoint.  Let's review our record over the past 5 years and let's keep in mind that much of that record is against MWC teams and not SEC teams. 

[Chile_Ute]

44 minutes ago, KUGRDON said:

I’m not sure that Getting a direct tv deal done to get it done is a good idea.  As soon as that deal is made, all other carriers will negotiate their payment down.  This has been the issue.

Bubble is bursting.  There needs to be a more realistic model for success.  I’m not saying let Direct go in dry....we will make less than they want and they will pay more than they want.  Somewhere in there.

[Chile_Ute]

1 hour ago, Orange said:

All these are good ideas.  I hesitate to say no to FCS teams, though, because I think our biggest issue is we simply have fewer wins than ACC and SEC and Big 12 teams, and some of that is due to our relative eschewing of FCS opponents as compared to every team in the SEC, et al (and our 9-game conf schedule)

More of a purest thing for me.  Play one decent P5 opponent, a bottom feeder P5/middle to high G5, and a G5 bottom feeder every year.  My wish list....not that it addresses our current issue all that much.

[Chile_Ute]

48 minutes ago, glduck said:

well... that record is certainly boosted from playing a whopping 1 bowl game against the SEC, as opposed to the ACC's 35, the Big 12's 37, and the Big 10's 52. we may be playing closer to .500 than the other P5 conferences, but replace our 30 games against the mountain west/wac with any other conference's SEC slate...

Strong point.  Not sure how to get the foot in the door with current Bowl alignments.

[Orange]

3 hours ago, youngorst said:

People keep bringing up the late start thing and while it might hurt the PAC more than other conferences its not unique to the PAC. Virtually every school in the country has 3-4 games starting at 6 pm local time or later. Think about how often you are watching a Big Ten or SEC match up in the evening (nearly every week these game are on), those games are starting at 7 or later local time. 

Just to demonstrate Alabama played 7 games that started at 6 pm or later local time. Its not unique to the PAC. 

 

I think the late start thing brushes against a bigger issue -- time zones in general, and the effect on players.  It's a helluva lot harder for a west-coast team IN GENERAL due to the extensive travel they face as compared to almost all other conferences.  We're a lot more spread out, even within the conference (Seattle to Tucson or Boulder is no joke), and if we do play someone back east, it's much tougher to recover from the travel time (teams like wazzu and OSU almost never get a return trip from the opponent, either).

[PAC MAN]

Like Pac12Fan noted, the Big 12 does take its football seriously compared to the PAC.  As CU becomes more embedded in the PAC, it is becoming more clear that the CU leadership (that is becoming more in line with the PAC leadership) doesn't value football like they used to in the Big 12.  Given that football drives the revenue these days, it can't be good news for the PAC in the future.  I have no doubt that the fans of this conference can be as rabid as the fans of the other P5 conferences but the leadership is not up to par with the nation when it comes to football and the fans respond in kind.  If they took football seriously, the $ will come.  I respect the fact that the Olympic sports are more valued in the PAC than the other P5 conferences but as long as the main moneymaker is being neglected, we can't expect to have the same kind of revenue those conferences have.  As long as the PAC leadership is like that, I think we should expect to make the least amount of money among the P5 conferences.  I don't remember how much the old Big 8 lagged behind the Pac-10, Big Ten, SEC, ACC, and Big East at the time when it came to revenues but it was still entertaining to watch.  Perhaps the PAC will be like that but at a cost.

The most obvious solution is for the Pac-12 Presidents/Chancellors is to get serious about football.  The question is will they realize that in order to get more $, they will have to take football seriously?

[Scscsc89]

I just don’t see any of these little things moving the needle & none of us (fans/schools/media) have the stomach for anything drastic ATM.

[glduck]

i think some of the ideas listed here and elsewhere (i really do think we should approach ESPN about taking over their Thursday block and market the #Pac12AfterDark as a weekly primetime showcase) will help, but fan apathy is a legitimate point.

we aren't the sec, and truthfully, few of us want to be. the "it just means more" thing the sec is using these days is kind of gross, imo. it does mean more down south, at the expense of a great many other things. but that fan apathy the farther out from the south you get leads to apathetic athletic departments and university hierarchies. we don't demand as much so the powers that be in the pac-12 can skate by with getting away with providing less. 

[Bruininthebay]

Nine Pac 12 schools are located in large urban areas which drive overall conference interest and revenue.  Neither Eugene, Salem or Pullman are big regions on their own.

Phil Knight made Oregon a national brand which seriously eclipsed Oregon State.  Pullman is basically in Idaho; although their are two universities in the the Pullman Moscow region there has not been a big population boom in the Palouse.  Oregon State and Washington State aren't able to contribute the casual fans like the other ten universities have demonstrated an ability to do.

Contraction is the best option because it will raise the level of competition and eliminate the need for divisions.  Round Robin is the best schedule possible.

I'd like to consolidate the six Pac 12 Network channels into three: California, Pacific Northwest and Mountain. By branding the Pac 12 network as "bay area" and "LA" they have limited the appeal to two schools with in a short drive of each other instead of emphasizing the broad the appeal across the state or region that a more streamlined Pac 12 Network channel lineup would offer.

[EastCoastFan]

5 hours ago, Chile_Ute said:

1. P12N needs to get on Direct TV and have a streaming subscription.  Scott needs to bend and get it done.  It is better than not having access at all.

2. CCG should be held in Vegas. Period.  Sam Boyd would be fine until the Raider complex is finished.  Neutral site, easy to travel to and a fixed location.  Easier for fans to make plans.

3. Late starts are harmful....sometimes unavoidable, there are so many time slots on TV.  OOC needs to include Midwest and eastern teams, the MWC teams and NO FCS teams (ever).  

I agree with these points as a start to turning things around.  Here are some additional thoughts:

--Two Pac-12 schools stood in the way of the landscape-changing plan to have a Big 10/Pac-12 football challenge every year, which would have been prime ABC/ESPN material, and a focus of media discussion throughout September.  It's still a good idea and should be put back on the table.  Think of a lineup packed every year with the likes of USC/Michigan, Washington/Ohio State, Stanford/Penn State, Colorado/Nebraska, Oregon/Wisconsin, Arizona State/Michigan State, etc.  Instead, the SEC and a couple of ACC teams dominate the early weeks of TV coverage when fans re-engage.

--We have a serious time zone problem, with 50% of viewers in the eastern and 30% in the central zones.  ESPN and Larry Scott understood this, and it's why the attempt was made to add Oklahoma and Texas (and two others) -- to allow for earlier starts on weeknights and Saturdays.  TV $$$'s rule what's happening, and the Pac-12's fifth rate revenue won't change until we expand the viewer time-window for our product.  Expansion east offers a much larger TV time window, whether that takes the form of adding schools to the conference, or some type of merger-agreement.

--It's time to think out of the box on the next step for the Pac-12 Network.  I know it's hard to admit you're wrong on the model of independence, but it's time for Larry Scott to bite the bullet and scrap a non-functioning platform that leaves 80% of the country "searching the dial" if they want any Pac-12 sports.

--A couple of the football coaching changes that occurred this winter might help, if they produce.  Headline, name coaches are a draw to fans and viewers.  We'll see what happens.

--Let's be honest, high school football in places like Oregon and Colorado pretty much sucks, and NoCal has been trending down.  Pac-12 coaching staffs should b re-doubling their efforts to encourage early participation in the sport (this goes for basketball, too), but too many Pac-12 coaches see their jobs as transitional and don't put the investment in long-term results.

--Neutral-site games also could help, with Vegas (when the new stadium is done) a prime location.  How about UCLA/Georgia played in Vegas, or Texas/Stanford?