What Will Revive the Conference

[PapaG]

4 hours ago, glduck said:

well... that record is certainly boosted from playing a whopping 1 bowl game against the SEC, as opposed to the ACC's 35, the Big 12's 37, and the Big 10's 52. we may be playing closer to .500 than the other P5 conferences, but replace our 30 games against the mountain west/wac with any other conference's SEC slate...

I agree with the schedule being weak, but the record isn't really that bad overall.  Plus, the MWC is 3rd in those rankings, so it wouldn't seem that the Pac is beating up on them to pad the Pac's bowl record.

[Bruininthebay]

No Pac 12 school should schedule FCS games.  With a 9 game conference schedule, it's easy to schedule another power 5 conference opponent and play a group of five team at home and on the road.

It's a really big difference to play on the road.  An easy win at home against an FCS team doesn't make a team better prepared to win a bowl game if they qualify for one.

It's absurd to consider the conduct of the SEC or the Big 12 with respect to anything.

[Scscsc89]

14 minutes ago, Downthefield said:

--Two Pac-12 schools stood in the way of the landscape-changing plan to have a Big 10/Pac-12 football challenge every year, which would have been prime ABC/ESPN material, and a focus of media discussion throughout September.  It's still a good idea and should be put back on the table.  Think of a lineup packed every year with the likes of USC/Michigan, Washington/Ohio State, Stanford/Penn State, Colorado/Nebraska, Oregon/Wisconsin, Arizona State/Michigan State, etc.  Instead, the SEC and a couple of ACC teams dominate the early weeks of TV coverage when fans re-engage.

We already have the Rose, Holiday & Foster Farms bowls with the Big Ten along with the chance these conferences’ teams would meet in the playoffs or other NY6 Bowl (like this season’s fiesta matchup).  A pac-12/Big10 mid-season challenge just brings about oversaturation & the chance of an ugh rematch.

a better idea is to have ALL the P5 conferences rotate amongst each other every year like they do in the NFL & MLB.   This season the SEC, and maybe the Big 12 the next...

[youngorst]

1 hour ago, Orange said:

I think the late start thing brushes against a bigger issue -- time zones in general, and the effect on players.  It's a helluva lot harder for a west-coast team IN GENERAL due to the extensive travel they face as compared to almost all other conferences.  We're a lot more spread out, even within the conference (Seattle to Tucson or Boulder is no joke), and if we do play someone back east, it's much tougher to recover from the travel time (teams like wazzu and OSU almost never get a return trip from the opponent, either).

OSU used to fail to get return trips, that has been fixed. Ohio State is the last trip scheduled without a return trip. 

[PAC MAN]

20 minutes ago, Downthefield said:

--Let's be honest, high school football in places like Oregon and Colorado pretty much sucks, and NoCal has been trending down.  Pac-12 coaching staffs should b re-doubling their efforts to encourage early participation in the sport (this goes for basketball, too), but too many Pac-12 coaches see their jobs as transitional and don't put the investment in long-term results.

That explains why CU recruits Florida & Georgia in addition to Texas and California.  If CU replaces MacIntyre with an ace recruiter and a staff that recruits lights out, the Buffs would definitely be back in business.

Some Colorado kids still are going to Pac-12 schools other than CU tho but it's not that great either when it comes to the talent pool of CO's HS players.

And for coaches being there for the long term, I can't see MacIntyre staying in Boulder over the long run given his southern roots (he coached at Duke and Ole Miss) and he's more after the players that will do well in the classroom in addition to the playing field so that narrows the recruiting pool somewhat.  Bill McCartney came from Michigan and stayed in Colorado for the long term...MacIntyre could do the same thing but I'm not counting on that.

33 minutes ago, potrerosf said:

Nine Pac 12 schools are located in large urban areas which drive overall conference interest and revenue.  Neither Eugene, Salem or Pullman are big regions on their own.

Phil Knight made Oregon a national brand which seriously eclipsed Oregon State.  Pullman is basically in Idaho; although their are two universities in the the Pullman Moscow region there has not been a big population boom in the Palouse.  Oregon State and Washington State aren't able to contribute the casual fans like the other ten universities have demonstrated an ability to do.

Contraction is the best option because it will raise the level of competition and eliminate the need for divisions.  Round Robin is the best schedule possible.

I'd like to consolidate the six Pac 12 Network channels into three: California, Pacific Northwest and Mountain. By branding the Pac 12 network as "bay area" and "LA" they have limited the appeal to two schools with in a short drive of each other instead of emphasizing the broad the appeal across the state or region that a more streamlined Pac 12 Network channel lineup would offer.

I think Eugene is big enough to stand on its own and they have Portland as well.  Very much like Nebraska being in Lincoln with Omaha down the road.  They should be OK.  But Corvallis and Pullman aren't necessarily those large urban areas and it seems like the Pac-12 is the most urban P5 conference out there.  There are P5 programs from elsewhere that do just fine with the type of location that Corvallis and Pullman have.  Sadly, those two schools in those two cities could be given the boot at some point in the future and I could see them do better in the MWC since the MWC is more like the rural version of the Pac-12 but that won't happen with a big fit being thrown by the state legislatures.  I am honestly concerned about those two schools especially with the changes in the tax structure and their ability to compete as long as that tax structure is in place.

I agree we could use less channels as well...on the Mountain feed, it's CU and Utah.  I like the concept but I'd love to know more about the Arizona schools as well.  Maybe that will help get us on DirecTV!  Just imagine Duck, Beaver, and Cougar fans going crazy when they show Husky stuff on the TV...now that's MUST WATCH TV!  I imagine the same loathing that Bruin, Cardinal, and Bear fans would do with Trojan centric programming.

[Quack 12]

19 minutes ago, potrerosf said:

No Pac 12 school should schedule FCS games.  With a 9 game conference schedule, it's easy to schedule another power 5 conference opponent and play a group of five team at home and on the road.

It's a really big difference to play on the road.  An easy win at home against an FCS team doesn't make a team better prepared to win a bowl game if they qualify for one.

It's absurd to consider the conduct of the SEC or the Big 12 with respect to anything.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: Where are these 24 Group of 5 games going to come from every season? It's much easier for the B1G to say it won't play FCS schools. They're surrounded by the MAC and Conference USA, and the AAC and Sun Belt schools are much closer. Plus, they can pay more.  We have the MWC and BYU, and that's it. Sure, Bowling Green will come west for a game every several years, but they're more likely to take the bigger paycheck and short bus ride to Columbus. Do you think Washington is going to set up a home and home with FAU? 

[Scscsc89]

Well, it’s not 24 because USC and Stanford play Notre Dame, so let’s call it 20-21 every season.

Only way it works is to pretty-much lock in the 11 MWC teams from traveling outside the West.  Fresno State played Alabama this season. No, we’re not going to get in a bidding war with other P5 conference teams, but we may not have to if we can offer multi-year deals as a trade off.

The Sun Belt & American schools, especially the half-dozen Texas- and OK-based ones are kind of a no-brainer for Colorado and the Arizona schools. And you mentioned BYU.

Would it be easy?  No, but hardly impossible.

[Chile_Ute]

I could see H and H to FAU, UCF, TX schools just for recruiting alone.  It also gets us exposure in markets that generally wouldn’t tune in.

[Bruininthebay]

3 hours ago, Quack 12 said:

Where are these 24 Group of 5 games going to come from every season?

There are more enough American, CUSA, MAC, Mountain West and Sunbelt teams looking for games with Power 5 teams to schedule this way.  All of the Group of 5 play eight conference games, so they intend to schedule at least two Power 5 games every year and there are 65  teams in both the "Power 5" and the "Group of 5".

[utenation]

13 hours ago, Pac12Fan said:

As I’m flying into LAX, I read  9 major publications that discussed the future of the PAC 12. The Big 12 is happy with the pac 12’s lack of success as it takes the heat off of them as a crappy conference. The fact of the matter is that the Big 12 is outperforming our conference in nearly every area that counts.  (Television revenue, attendance, national relevance, fans and programs that actually care)

The articles I’m reading discuss, removing teams that bring little to the table, changing the commissioner, combining to create 4 conferences while dropping over 20 schools from P5 status, 2 teams going independent from the PAC or multiple teams joining the BIG 12. Most of the articles claim that outside our region, nobody watches PAC12 football and our next television deal will contain less money as our conference will be seeing the leftovers and the fallout from the ESPN implosion.  

The press (in general) sucks but I see some of their talking points coming to light. 

We are all Monday morning quarterbacks but when your business is hurting, you need to make changes in order to be competitive. 

Move the conference offices out of San Francisco. The rents are way too high which means all the staff is overpaid. 

Move the PAC 12 championship game to a location where the fans will go. The other conferences averaged over 74,000 fans to their championship games. We were lucky to get 50,000 fans to this game.  Even with Stanford in the championship game, we don’t come close to filling the stadium. The Bay Area and college football don’t mix.  Stanford doesn’t care about football as is shown in their own attendance. Cal is not much better. I would rather see the championship game in San Diego, Phoenix or Las Vegas. The casual fan will show up and its not such a hassle and fans love these cities. 

Stop the late starts. Fan attendance is higher for early afternoon games and the rest of the country can watch.  How many Big 10 and Big 12 games start after 7 pm local time?  The mountain time zone and Arizona schools had many games start after 8 pm. I realize it is all about the television $ but less fans want to leave their stadium after 10:30 pm and many fans fall asleep before the games are over or they record them. Many fans aren’t getting home until early Sunday morning. With children, it makes things harder.

I have enjoyed the PAC 12 network but it’s not easily available to all fans across the world.  

I don’t have all the answers but I feel our conference isn’t the same as it once was and we are becoming less significant in the world of major college sports. Our population Region for the conference is approximately 69 million compared with Big 12 of 56 million but more people care about their programs. Big 12 fills 88% of their seats and that includes Kansas. The PAC 12 fills only 64% of their seats. 

We need a powerhouse program that stomps on other teams and creates a mystique. That used to be USC and Washington. Our league has become very mediocre.  Programs like Washington State and Utah are now the equals to USC and a Washington and beat the “big boys” half the time. My own team supposedly recruits very well but it doesn’t resonate on the field.  We don’t beat anyone or go to bowl games. 

We were 1-8 in bowl games and many of the games were not close.  It was embarrassing to the league. 

Im done ranting.  Back to work  

 

Just for accuracy, the B12 doesnt bring in more TV revenue than the P12.

The Pac deal was signed in 2011 and worth $3 billion over 12 years or $250 million per year or roughly $21 million per school per year. Add in another $2 million per year for each school for the P12 network distribution for $23 million for each school.

The B12 deal was signed in 2012 for $2.6 billion over 13 years or $20 million per school per year.

Total conference revenue distribution has been about the same for both conferences the last few years. Ranging from about $24 million to $28 million. TV revenue has also been on a yearly sliding scale for the P12, not sure about the B12. But total contract value is accurate.

The ACC TV deal is the lowest of P5 conferences.

Where we are really falling behind is against the B10 and SEC. We will likely never have the interest and eyeballs that they do.

[All Hail]

6 hours ago, utenation said:

Just for accuracy, the B12 doesnt bring in more TV revenue than the P12.

The Pac deal was signed in 2011 and worth $3 billion over 12 years or $250 million per year or roughly $21 million per school per year. Add in another $2 million per year for each school for the P12 network distribution for $23 million for each school.

The B12 deal was signed in 2012 for $2.6 billion over 13 years or $20 million per school per year.

Total conference revenue distribution has been about the same for both conferences the last few years. Ranging from about $24 million to $28 million. TV revenue has also been on a yearly sliding scale for the P12, not sure about the B12. But total contract value is accurate.

The ACC TV deal is the lowest of P5 conferences.

Where we are really falling behind is against the B10 and SEC. We will likely never have the interest and eyeballs that they do.

The big 12 split 348 million in profit, which accounts for over 33 million per school.  So yes, we are falling behind the big 12. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/102433346

[utenation]

3 hours ago, All Hail said:

The big 12 split 348 million in profit, which accounts for over 33 million per school.  So yes, we are falling behind the big 12. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/102433346

I specifically said TV revenue which shows market value for the conference, not overall revenue.  Which has performance factors included and changes each year.

FY17 overall revenue projected is:

$34 million B12

$29.5 million P12

Not a huge gap. But a gap.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/05/18/college-hotline-the-pac-12-revenue-deficit-relative-to-sec-big-ten-is-real-and-its-spectacular/amp/

The B10 and SEC will be $40 mill+ in ‘17. Much bigger problem.

[All Hail]

19 minutes ago, utenation said:

I specifically said TV revenue which shows market value for the conference, not overall revenue.  Which has performance factors included and changes each year.

FY17 overall revenue projected is:

$34 million B12

$29.5 million P12

Not a huge gap. But a gap.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/05/18/college-hotline-the-pac-12-revenue-deficit-relative-to-sec-big-ten-is-real-and-its-spectacular/amp/

The B10 and SEC will be $40 mill+ in ‘17. Much bigger problem.

I know what you said.  I was just saying that we are falling behind the big 12 as well.  Being about 20% revenue per school behind the big 12 will lead to problems over time.  At this pace, In 4 years, each big 12 school will be $20 million richer than each pac 12 school.  This will only further drive up the values of coaches and their assistants putting us at an even greater disadvantage.

[glduck]

i'm interested in the long-term growth of marketing in china and what fruits eventually might come out of our current deal with alibaba. i know we're in the early stages still, but the potential seems relatively unlimited, and far more lucrative than any additional money grabs we could look to make domestically. it may be a long term payoff, but asia seems like the best bet to our geography problem. 

[utenation]

18 minutes ago, All Hail said:

I know what you said.  I was just saying that we are falling behind the big 12 as well.  Being about 20% revenue per school behind the big 12 will lead to problems over time.  At this pace, In 4 years, each big 12 school will be $20 million richer than each pac 12 school.  This will only further drive up the values of coaches and their assistants putting us at an even greater disadvantage.

One thing that seems to be increasing each year is P12 network revenue.. I think the latest figures are $2.5 million per year.. Up from $1 million just a few years ago.

As far as the apathy and lack of performance in this thread, I couldn't agree more..

[Orange]

17 hours ago, youngorst said:

OSU used to fail to get return trips, that has been fixed. Ohio State is the last trip scheduled without a return trip. 

Yeah, I don't believe this for a second, unless we're going to stop playing exclusively P5 bottom-feeders and no one better.  The likes of Michigan, Alabama, or Texas will never, EVER come to Corvallis.

[Orange]

16 hours ago, Jalapeno said:

 

I think Eugene is big enough to stand on its own and they have Portland as well.  Very much like Nebraska being in Lincoln with Omaha down the road.  They should be OK.  But Corvallis and Pullman aren't necessarily those large urban areas

You realize Corvallis is actually closer to Portland than Eugene is, right?  

And no, Eugene does not "stand on its own" with respect to being a large city.  At all.  

It's 160,000 people, and it's growing at a very slow rate.  No metric of measuring metro or statistical population areas puts Eugene in the Portland area.  Oregon is successful thanks to branding, and its Nike backing.  Period.

[Mano]

16 hours ago, Scscsc89 said:

Well, it’s not 24 because USC and Stanford play Notre Dame, so let’s call it 20-21 every season.

Only way it works is to pretty-much lock in the 11 MWC teams from traveling outside the West.  Fresno State played Alabama this season. No, we’re not going to get in a bidding war with other P5 conference teams, but we may not have to if we can offer multi-year deals as a trade off.

The Sun Belt & American schools, especially the half-dozen Texas- and OK-based ones are kind of a no-brainer for Colorado and the Arizona schools. And you mentioned BYU.

Would it be easy?  No, but hardly impossible.

The Pac can't offer more for bodybag games, but if they offer MWC teams H-H series, the MWC teams would absolutely jump at it.

[MrBug708]

1 hour ago, glduck said:

i'm interested in the long-term growth of marketing in china and what fruits eventually might come out of our current deal with alibaba. i know we're in the early stages still, but the potential seems relatively unlimited, and far more lucrative than any additional money grabs we could look to make domestically. it may be a long term payoff, but asia seems like the best bet to our geography problem. 

Time to send UCLA basketball on another goodwill tour!

[EastCoastFan]

1 hour ago, MrBug708 said:

Time to send UCLA basketball on another goodwill tour!

Isn't that what they just did in Palo Alto?