Picking Up The Pieces

[Buff_Fan]

On 8/23/2023 at 12:49 PM, win2bfree said:

You are projecting.  I merely pointed out the self-serving hypocrisy of not only Chris Hill's statement (in this instance), but of some Utah fans especially when USC/UCLA announced that they were leaving.  When leaving suited them Utah did it, so why shouldn't anyone else?

These moves are apples and oranges.  SC/UCLA killed the pac. Ultimately everyone obviously can make whatever financial choices they make, but there are ramifications.  

[win2bfree]

On 8/23/2023 at 11:56 AM, Mano said:

Everyone can do what they want, but the 2 moves were very different, and you seem to be willfully ignoring that and saying they are equivalent. 

You are right they are different.  One move benefited Utah, the other didn't.

[Mano]

 

On 8/23/2023 at 1:05 PM, win2bfree said:

You are right they are different.  One move benefited Utah, the other didn't.

 

Dr. Hill pointed out the huge travel difference would be detrimental to athletes in other sports. Utah joined a conference that they were squarely in the footprint of. If you cannot acknowledge the difference, you are either being willfully ignorant, or just a dumbass.  

[Orange]

On 8/23/2023 at 11:49 AM, win2bfree said:

You are projecting.  I merely pointed out the self-serving hypocrisy of not only Chris Hill's statement (in this instance), but of some Utah fans especially when USC/UCLA announced that they were leaving.  When leaving suited them Utah did it, so why shouldn't anyone else?

How is Utah moving from the Mountain WEST to the PAC-12 the same as University of Southern California moving to the BIG TEN?

 

Think carefully about regions of the U.S. when you consider your answer and please show your work.

[EastCoastFan]

This altogther is a pretty circular discussion.  Let's just get the bottom line out front and center -- college athletic departments follow the money.  The football money.  It rules.  Plain and simple.  All the other sports and the fans and the volleyball and soccer players get dragged along.  Has it really been better for Missouri to be in a conference division with Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina?  Or for West Virginia to be playing games in all sports at a variety of Texas schools?  Is it better that we've lost the neighborhood rivalries or Pitt/Penn State, KU/Missouri, Nebraska/Oklahoma, A&M/Tech?  Of course not. 

In an effort to continue to fund all athletics, so they don't get left behind, Utah, Arizona, Colorado, and ASU will now be playing games in all sports in Orlando, Morgantown, and Cincinnati.  All to keep the cash flowing, even though they'll still be far behind the Power Two.   UCLA and USC will be hitting big paydays, juicy ones to spread the money around, but having all types of teams waiting in airports to get to State College, College Park, Champaign, Iowa City, and Piscataway.

None of this makes sense other than to keep the cash flowing, the big bucks, to pay head football coaches $6 to $10 million a year and to have "facilities" with center fountains, barber shops, player lockers each equipped with individual TVs, and, of course, a circle of funders packing the coffers of NIL collectives.  It all makes one think that the one school that got it right, long in advance, was the University of Chicago, back in 1946.

[win2bfree]

If the SEC/B1G requested a meeting with Utah and asked them to invite special guest Chris Hill to explore conference membership opportunities, they would all be on the next flight to Birmingham/Rosemont, regions be damned.

[EastCoastFan]

On 8/23/2023 at 5:27 PM, win2bfree said:

If the SEC/B1G requested a meeting with Utah and asked them to invite special guest Chris Hill to explore conference membership opportunities, they would all be on the next flight to Birmingham/Rosemont, regions be damned.

Of course.  So would every school not in the B1G or SEC.  Enough said...

[Mano]

On 8/23/2023 at 3:27 PM, win2bfree said:

If the SEC/B1G requested a meeting with Utah and asked them to invite special guest Chris Hill to explore conference membership opportunities, they would all be on the next flight to Birmingham/Rosemont, regions be damned.

Now you are changing arguments. 

You claimed people associated with Utah shouldn't comment because Utah moving to Pac was equivalent to USC to B1G, which is bullshit.

[win2bfree]

On 8/23/2023 at 2:43 PM, Mano said:

Now you are changing arguments. 

You claimed people associated with Utah shouldn't comment because Utah moving to Pac was equivalent to USC to B1G, which is bullshit.

My argument was that people and institutions will do what is in their best interest.  "Regionalism" and phony concern for non-revenue sports are what others cite to demonize those who do opposite of what they want.  Even while they themselves violate the very same issues. 

Utah moving to the PAC was equivalent to USC moving to the B1G because it served each institutions own self interest.

[row Z]

In my view, the significance of Chris Hill's remarks are not in relation to switching conferences for football, but in relation to preserving reasonable geographic conferences for the non revenue sports. The reason i shared the article was that there appears to be something of a groundswell (Chip Kelly, Chris Hill, Chris Petersen, Podcast of Champions, UCLA AD Martin Jarmond, Gabey Lucas at uwdawgpound.com, pretty much every college sports fan i talk to) for trying to contain the crazy realignment stuff within football. That is where the money is, that is what the networks care about, so we have to live with it. But, I would argue that it is in pretty much everyone's interest to carve out the non-revenue sports from the realignment. I think even Fox might go along with it. 

edit: just read this from an interview with Chris Petersen:

"Among the upcoming challenges, Petersen said, will be what he views as the inevitable separation of football from NCAA oversight, “whether it’s in two years, five years, whatever. And they should, because it’s apples and oranges to everything else. The Pac-12 should still be in existence, even if football went and did something different. It makes too much sense, right? But who’s in charge? Who’s going to get that done?”

[dtd]

On 8/23/2023 at 1:03 PM, win2bfree said:

So regional alignment only matters when it benefits your university.  Got it.

You may wish to bookmark this. In fact, in your case, make it your homepage. Hell, get a tattoo. 

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

[dtd]

On 8/23/2023 at 5:03 PM, win2bfree said:

My argument was that people and institutions will do what is in their best interest.  "Regionalism" and phony concern for non-revenue sports are what others cite to demonize those who do opposite of what they want.  Even while they themselves violate the very same issues. 

Utah moving to the PAC was equivalent to USC moving to the B1G because it served each institutions own self interest.

Picking a piece of gum off my shoe is equivalent to getting a prostate exam because they are both in my own self interest!

Oh wait, while it's on my clipboard: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

[utenation]

On 8/17/2023 at 7:34 PM, MrBug708 said:

Those that think football and attendance have anything to do with the value of media markets are why the P12 is dead. One team got a full share of B10 media rights and the other was thrown a half share lifeline. It's much like Stanford not wanting Oklahoma State in the conference and killing Texas/Oklahoma expansion because of pride. 

Nobody said attendance is the deciding factor but that doesn't change the fact that UCLA's attendance is absolutely pathetic. Doesn't look good on TV and the court of public opinion and perception. 

[utenation]

On 8/23/2023 at 12:49 PM, win2bfree said:

You are projecting.  I merely pointed out the self-serving hypocrisy of not only Chris Hill's statement (in this instance), but of some Utah fans especially when USC/UCLA announced that they were leaving.  When leaving suited them Utah did it, so why shouldn't anyone else?

I think Chris Hill is looking out for ALL student athletes in this article and calling out ADs and Presidents. Hardly self serving. LOL. He's retired, he doesn't need to sing the company tune anymore. 

[PAC MAN]

On 8/23/2023 at 4:03 PM, win2bfree said:

My argument was that people and institutions will do what is in their best interest.  "Regionalism" and phony concern for non-revenue sports are what others cite to demonize those who do opposite of what they want.  Even while they themselves violate the very same issues. 

Utah moving to the PAC was equivalent to USC moving to the B1G because it served each institutions own self interest.

 

Don't disagree...CU moved to the PAC to be able to have a football game in Los Angeles every year so they can have big alumni events for their Southern California alumni base which is large.  When USC & UCLA left and SDSU couldn't get out of the MWC in time, CU had no reason to stay in the PAC.

[PAC MAN]

On 8/20/2023 at 7:12 PM, Mano said:

 

 

 

Will be ironic if this deal happens pretty soon and then we will look back and say to ourselves "we should have stayed".

[Orange]

On 8/24/2023 at 12:01 PM, PAC MAN said:

 

Don't disagree...CU moved to the PAC to be able to have a football game in Los Angeles every year so they can have big alumni events for their Southern California alumni base which is large.  When USC & UCLA left and SDSU couldn't get out of the MWC in time, CU had no reason to stay in the PAC.

Gotta source for this bullshit-sounding justification?

[Buff_Fan]

On 8/25/2023 at 10:34 AM, Orange said:

Gotta source for this bullshit-sounding justification?

There was a lot more to the moves to and from the pac.  From concerns over Texas and revenue sharing to the coming implosion of the pac.  As always money is the answer to all quesrions.  Alumni events are great, but don’t move the needle.

[Pac10duck]

Well, looks like Stanford and Cal seem almost inevitably headed to the ACC (Although reportedly only for 25% shares each in a league that's only making $30-35 million in TV money to begin with. Desperate times call for desperate measures.) Oregon State and WSU are headed to C-USA or the MWC.

Is this board going to be shut down when the PAC dissolves on August 3 of this year? Even if the board stops allowing new posts, will we at least be allowed to still view the old posts?

[mysfit]

I hope the board stays.......call it the former PAC. I'd love to see all the discussions from New perspectives